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Validity of a valuation with multiple banks

Discussion in 'Property Finance' started by opal3259, 22nd Dec, 2015.

  1. opal3259

    opal3259 Well-Known Member

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    Hi Folks,

    Getting a valuation on a property tomorrow via Valex.
    Thing is, it'll be ordered via the CBA customer portal - but my application is sitting with Westpac.

    In the past, I've tried to have the valuation re-assigned from one bank to another - but this was unsuccessful. They forced me to get it done again.... and the same valuer showed up to the property the following week, which was amusing. He basically walked and asked 'has anything changed?'... which it hadn't. Walked out and a new report with the same figure was issued.

    Has anyone here recently had a valuation successfully re-assigned to another bank?
    Also trying to wrap my head around how it works when one lender owns another.

    So if you have a valuation that is done for Westpac - can you use it with RAMS?
    If one is done for NAB, can you use it with uBank? etc

    In other words, I'm trying to work out if the one I did for CBA will be valid with Bankwest and Aussie?
     
  2. tobe

    tobe Well-Known Member

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    Are you using a broker?
     
  3. opal3259

    opal3259 Well-Known Member

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    Yup.
     
  4. tobe

    tobe Well-Known Member

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    and what did your broker suggest? Is it your idea or his to get upfront vals with a lender other than the one you are using?
     
  5. opal3259

    opal3259 Well-Known Member

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    Yes it was.

    I saw that the existing valuation was assigned to Opteon... and have had a bad experience with them in the past. So I ordered my own via Valex.

    And sure enough - there's an issue with Opteon (after they sat on the job for 10 days).
    Giving Westpac another shot by letting them order a second valuation... but with the lag over the Christmas break, wanted to have a Plan B.

    Out of curiosity, is there any reason why a broker would be hesitant to order multiple upfront vals?
    In this particular case, it would have saved us a bunch of time sitting on our hands.
     
  6. opal3259

    opal3259 Well-Known Member

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    And to expand on that last post.
    If Westpac can't get the deal over the line - CBA would be next in line.

    Quite a few PC members have mentioned they should have been first in line :p
     
  7. Peter_Tersteeg

    Peter_Tersteeg Finance broker and strategist Business Member

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    If the banks charge the broker for the surplus valuations, are you willing to compensate the broker? Keep in mind you're probably looking at at least $330 per valuation, possibly more.

    If brokers read the terms and conditions when they order upfront valuations, all state that if a review finds that valuations are being ordered unnecessarily, then the lender can charge the broker for the valuations and restrict future access.

    It happens all the time that a valuation is low and the finance application doesn't even get off the ground, getting a second opinion isn't a big deal either. But shopping around half a dozen is well outside the spirit of why lenders allow brokers to order upfront valuations, and potentially expensive for the broker and bad for business.

    I've found that if a second valuation comes in below the owners expectations, a third attempt is also likely to disappoint.


    I can't imagine why a broker wouldn't order a single valuation upfront though. One reason why might be that Westpac doesn't give all brokers access to upfront valuations (I think this may be changing at the moment though). There are ways around this if the broker is creative however.
     
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  8. opal3259

    opal3259 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the answer Peter.
    And to address your question - yes, I'd absolutely be willing to compensate the broker.

    That's why I've ordered (and paid) for a few of them via Valex myself.
    When you're talking deals well over the million mark... the valuation fee is a drop in the ocean.

    And from a customer perspective - it makes perfect sense.

    While a 10% variance for a 350k deal might not be such a big deal. At 1.5 to 2 million.... it can obviously make a big difference to your application. I'd happily pay 1k to get 3 upfront vals in that scenario.

    I just wish there was a way to order (and pay) for them upfront as a customer for ANZ and NAB.
    I've only be able to find a Valex link for CBA and Bankwest.
     
  9. tobe

    tobe Well-Known Member

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    They aren't really upfront valuations if you have already submitted the application.

    It can be difficult re assigning valuations, and Using vals from one lender 'owned' by another is also problematic. Westpac owns rams, however they have a different val policy for instance.
     
  10. opal3259

    opal3259 Well-Known Member

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    Good point.

    I think at this point, I'll just instruct the broker to get some upfront vals done before we go any further.

    I think I saw some mention a while back that NAB has their own internal valuation system, which operates outside the regular valuation roulette wheel?
     
  11. euro73

    euro73 Well-Known Member Business Member

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    Nope - NAB Broker has a separate valuation ordering portal which is accessed via it's ApplyOnline facility, but the valuation job goes to Valex.

    There are two main software platforms - VMS ( now renamed RP Property Hub) and Valex. Pretty much every lender - and certainly every lender offering brokers the access to order upfront vals - uses one or the other.

    Interestingly, RP Data owns both :)

    VMS Valuation Management Services - Home ( old site )
    RP Property Hub - Login ( new site)
    Welcome to ValEx

    There used to be a third called SmartVal - but they got swallowed @ 6-7 years ago.


    On the topic of valuations.... expect to start seeing a lot of comments like these, increasingly ... motivated by good old fashioned backside protection...

    "Our market research reveal following APRA influenced pressure on Lenders to more tightly regulate Investor Lending there has been a noticeable decline in Investor activity in the local market. Longer listing periods and less competition for available stock are now featuring in the sale of local property. Accordingly the Risk Rating adopted within this valuation has been applied to comply with the recommendations of the API Property Pro Supporting Memorandum"
     
  12. opal3259

    opal3259 Well-Known Member

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    That's very interesting :)
    In my case, there's no dispute about price - the valuation came in at contract.

    The issue is that the valuer is claiming that there is 'no market for owner occupiers' and thus the site has to be valued only as a development site.

    Don't want to post the address publicly.... but safe to say it's more than suitable for an owner occupier given:

    1) The vendor was an owner occupier and lived there for two years prior to selling and relocating overseas;
    2) It's currently tenanted at just $1,000 per week to a family.

    I've bought on these points up with the valuer, but they are just digging their heels in and refusing to budge.

    In the process of contacting a couple of media outlets at the moment... so there's a decent chance you'll end reading about it soon :D
     
  13. euro73

    euro73 Well-Known Member Business Member

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    Getting a valuer to change their mind is..... well, to be honest in 15 + years of senior bank lending roles and mortgage broking.... rare

    You need to get different valuations ordered, via different lenders.
     
  14. opal3259

    opal3259 Well-Known Member

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    I hear you - have started going down that road.
    Terribly frustrating when you know the valuer has made a mistake.

    I know valuers will argue otherwise... but the reality is that they are human.
    And humans make mistakes.

    Getting them to admit this though... is like talking to a brick wall.
    Actually I take that back - at least the brick wall won't respond with something dumb :D

    I'll PM you the site address and you'll see what I mean.
     
  15. euro73

    euro73 Well-Known Member Business Member

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    I see what you mean... it's got to be very frustrating. You can spend time arguing the result and get nowhere, or just move on and go elsewhere.
     
  16. Dazedmw

    Dazedmw Well-Known Member

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    Those points are irrelevant in terms of the Highest and Best Use of the property. Its very common when a property's H&BU becomes a development site that the vendor will have been using it for the previous H&BU. It's also not really relevant what the current purchaser is planning to do with the site.

    The issue is if the market value is driven by developers regardless of what the current or recent use is.
     
  17. Dazedmw

    Dazedmw Well-Known Member

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    Is there anything there that is unreasonable?