Unnoticed excess water usage

Discussion in 'Property Management' started by Antoni0, 6th Jul, 2017.

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  1. Antoni0

    Antoni0 Well-Known Member

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    Hi everyone, first post, looking forward to the wealth on information in here and sharing some I've learnt along the way.

    I've owned an IP in the SE Queensland from new for over 14 years and it's been rented through an agent, it's had a really good run of tenants up until these last few years. I'm interested in hearing people's opinions on how to deal with this new issue I've come across of 'unnoticed excess water usage' by now most would know I'm confronted with the dreaded water bill up in the thousands, possible guessing between the 2 to 5 thousand mark.

    The story goes from the tenants that the hot water system, semi stoped working 2 weeks prior and later on I was contacted by my PM that hot water system had stopped working but no mention of a leak. I turned up to the property because 9/10 it's just the air needing to be drained out of the hot water tank because it's the old Saxon type hot water system and they never bother doing it even though I've asked them many times. Anyway, I arrive to the property only to find a steady stream of water flowing out onto the gutter, probably the same amount as a garden hose turned on all the way.

    I approached the tenant and asked him how long has the water been leaking. His reply was he could hear the water trickling for over 2 weeks but didn't know where it was coming from and experienced loss of hot water. I've looked down the street and whole road at the bottom of the hill where the water has collect was saturated. I later found that source of the leak was coming from the hot water system drain tap and a plumber later on confirmed it had failed internally.

    I've already questioned the PM and local water board but as far as they know there isn't much I can do about it. I've had the property surveyed for water efficient but the PM advised me against charging the tenants for water at the start of the lease.

    My main question is, can anybody recommend some coarse of action to reduce the cost of my water bill ?

    TIA Tony.
     
  2. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Well-Known Member

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    You may have some luck with the water Authority if you can get a Plumber's Statement regarding repair of the leak.

    As for why your agent isn't charging water use sounds odd IMHO.
     
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  3. Marg4000

    Marg4000 Well-Known Member

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    Get evidence from the company who replaces the hot water system that there has been a substantial leak. Forward this to the Water company and request a reduction in the account. Worth a try.
    Marg
     
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  4. Antoni0

    Antoni0 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the quick responses so far, my PM contacted the water board and this was the response below. I also checked on their site and they stated something like only owner occupied homes are eligible for concealed water leakage rebate. I might have to push a bit harder myself.
    "Dear Tony

    I have spoken to Urban Utilities regarding a rebate on the water consumption at the property.

    I have been advised that there is no rebate for a leaking hot water service as the leak was not a concealed leak.

    They do not give any sort of rebate for excessive water consumption due to a concealed leak for a rental property.

    Regards "

    I've learnt a good lesson here and will be on charging water from now on.
     
  5. BennEznElle

    BennEznElle Well-Known Member

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    Even if you were charging the tenant for water, I'm not sure you would be able to pass on that cost though anyway. As a tenant I would be paying for water usage caused by a hot water system failure. Thats not the tenants fault and its not their responsibility to maintain the hot water system either.
     
  6. Antoni0

    Antoni0 Well-Known Member

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    But it is their responsibility to inform the PM when something is broken and I bet if they were paying for the water they would have turned the main water supply off straight away and contacted the PM, not wait 2 weeks then do something about it. What sort of person drives past a water leak every day leaking from the property they live in knowing someone has to pay for it.

    This tenant actually complains about everything that's minor and I'm pretty dumbfounded how they never reported the hot water system not working well in the first place. I've gone to the length of fixing everything they complained about prior, things like brand new shower heads that they claimed where too harsh on their skin and a toilet cistern was replaced in the on sweat that they claim was too loud when it refilled and woke the other partner up from their sleep, which was rubbish. I try to run a good house and want happy tenants.
     
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  7. Iamnumber5

    Iamnumber5 Well-Known Member

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    One of my IP in Melbourne had a water leak from under the house which resulted about $7000 water bill for the tenant. The ground was saturated with water that the plumber had to wear a breathing gear to fix the leak. Apparently the water company waived the bill.
     
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  8. 10773

    10773 Member

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    HI Antonio,
    I would definitely try the Water company, as you have in writing from the plumber that it was an internal leak.
    By the sounds of the tenants didn't really care about the hot water system or the sound of something leaking and never reported it, the tenants have an obligation to report all maintenance. As a Property Manager I would be speaking with the tenants to advise them of what has happened. You're right that they didn't report it and you have every right to forward the water bill usage onto the tenants for them to pay.
    Sounds like your a very reasonable owner and always fixing things to keep the tenants happy - which is fantastic! In regards to passing on the water usage, I would definitely work out how much water usage the tenants actually used and still invoice them, so they can see the bill for themselves and also know that they are paying for water usage to make them more aware of any situation.
    Unfortunately with any hot water system, unless the leak is visible, no one knows until you receive your water bill or electricity bill when it goes up quite a lot and start to investigate.
    As for checking the hot water system, it is definitely a tenant's job to make sure the hot water system is topped up, the tenants should be made aware at the start of the tenancy of this, or during routine inspections.
    From everything, I would try and get some sort of compensation back into your hands from the water usage bill - not all of it just some, so the tenants are aware of the costs and you can continue on to charge the tenants.
    Hope this helps
    Kind regards,
    Samantha Ellis
     
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  9. Antoni0

    Antoni0 Well-Known Member

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    20150324_164715_LI.jpg
    Thanks for the response Sam and what you have said aligns with what I was thinking.

    The tenants have been in the house for over a year and every time I've turned up for either an inspection with the PM or for a minor repair I've found the hot water system is almost empty.
    I can only assume from the past that they've let the water get low but being an old system I wouldn't have expected it to last much longer.

    I did ask if they refilled it and they replied, after they ran out of the hot water they did. The drain from the hot water system sits above a small grate on the ground and the water is clearly visible after you drain it. This drain empties through pipework straight out into the gutter beside the houses driveway, I can only imagine they knew of the leak.
     
  10. S.T

    S.T Well-Known Member

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    Water company should have some type of leak allowance for this. You may have to wait for the bill and then try and speak with that department. Definitely get a note from the plumber talking about the internal leak and that it is now fixed, they should match your bill to normal water usage patterns so you wont get charged for the excess.

    I'd be billing the tenant for water usage asap and if the tenants aren't doing the right thing by you of advising of serious issues, look to move them on when their lease ends.
     
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  11. Marg4000

    Marg4000 Well-Known Member

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    With the excess water draining away efficiently, it is entirely possible that the tenant had no knowledge of the extent of the problem. Had the side yard been flooded it would have been different.

    I doubt any action against the tenant would be successful, unless you have proof they were aware of a major problem.
    Marg
     
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  12. Antoni0

    Antoni0 Well-Known Member

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    That drainage pipe dumps straight out into the open gutter outside of the house's driveway.
    The whole side of the streets gutter was wet with a constant flow of water leaving the actual house. At the bottom of the street where the road comes into a T-section was soaking wet and they would have had to drive through it everyday going to work.

    Seriously, you've got to be pretty thick not to notice it in a two week time frame and it hadn't rained at that time either. If clean water mysteriously and continuously leaks from your driveway all day and knight wouldn't you question it?
     
  13. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Well-Known Member

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    Why is your hws draining to stormwater?
     
  14. Joynz

    Joynz Well-Known Member

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    Actually, I can completely understand how the tenants might not have noticed a leak going into a drain on the 'blind' side of the house.

    If they drive to and from work, they wouldn't see the wet gutter - and wouldn't realise it was related to the hot water.

    It's not like it was running over the front yard, over concrete, into the gutter. I certainly wouldn't have noticed it.
     
    Last edited: 7th Jul, 2017
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  15. Antoni0

    Antoni0 Well-Known Member

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    According to the BSA when the house was built 14 years all legal, I also questioned it.
     
  16. Antoni0

    Antoni0 Well-Known Member

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    They may not of initially connected it with the hot water but they did drain the hot water and seen it was continuously leaking. How could you not see a wet road gutter, it's only a small quiet street and my house is the 2nd from the top on the hill. It's the first thing that stood out as I got there. All that was told to me was the hot water system failed no mention of the leak until I asked them.
     
  17. dabbler

    dabbler Well-Known Member

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    You can't really blame the tenant & 2 weeks of the pressure valve leaking should not be 2k of water, I am surprised they did not run out and ask for an emergency repair !
     
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  18. KayTea

    KayTea Well-Known Member

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    I'm with you on this one - just because they don't think that they should foot the bill is certainly not a reason to not report the issue. I've got tenants who, on every bill for the past 2 years (when I took over the property) have shown that they consume twice the regional average when it comes to water. And, being in QLD, it's me who gets hit with the bill and the PM spends months trying to get them to pay up. I'm sure if they were billed directly by Urban Utilities, and didn't have a "I'll pay it when I get around to it" attitude, they'd use a lot less.

    Then they had the gaul to ask for a reduced water bill earlier this year, when there was a small leak (that had only just started), and it took a few days to get it fixed (and there was a $30 difference in the water consumption bill for that quarter).

    I really wish QLD billed tenants directly, like VIC does.
     
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  19. Marg4000

    Marg4000 Well-Known Member

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    Have you actually received the bill yet?
    How much higher was it?
    Marg
     
  20. Antoni0

    Antoni0 Well-Known Member

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    Yes Dabbler they did run out of hot water and it was an old Saxon system that works differently from the current hot water systems. They experienced running out of hot for 2 weeks from what they told me. I would have preferred them to turn the water isolator off at the system and ring someone up straight away to repair it. Water is really expensive here in Brisbane.
    I still had to pay for an emergency repair bill and I've already spent well over 2 grand for a new system.
    I need to go check the numbers on the meter because the bill is not due until a few months. When you find a leak that is like a garden hose running continually and they tell you it's been leaking like that for 2 weeks but I hope it hasn't because this is not going to be good if true.