Property & Infrastructure Funds Unlisted Property Trusts 2021

Discussion in 'Shares & Funds' started by Nickjjt1, 12th Jan, 2021.

Join Australia's most dynamic and respected property investment community
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Nickjjt1

    Nickjjt1 Active Member

    Joined:
    1st Oct, 2018
    Posts:
    39
    Location:
    Sydney
    {Note from mods - this thread continues from here: Unlisted Property Trusts 2020 [Property & Infrastructure Funds]}




    It looks like the December revaluations has seen Charter Hall boost the value of their properties across the board

    30 Sep ex price to 31 Dec ex price
    DOF 1.5304 to 1.5913, up +4.0%
    PFA 1.0556 to 1.0756, up +1.9%
    DIF4 1.0904 to 1.1319, up +3.8%
    LWF 0.9928 to 1.0409, up +4.8%
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 13th Jan, 2021
    Big A likes this.
  2. Snowball

    Snowball Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    28th Dec, 2016
    Posts:
    843
    Location:
    Perth
    Note that Charter Halls listed Long Wale REIT (CLW) is now trading at a discount to NTA and a yield of about 6.6% based on guidance.

    Price is around $4.40 and from memory latest reported asset value was $4.71 per share. It looks pretty attractive in the current zero-rates-everything’s-expensive world were in.

    Earnings weren’t hit at all due to covid. In fact, earnings and distributions are both still growing.

    Full disclosure, I’ve been buying some.
     
    Big A likes this.
  3. The Y-man

    The Y-man Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    13,439
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Well, that's a heap better than "Full disclosure, I am NOT buying any" :D

    The Y-man
     
    Snowball and Big A like this.
  4. Big A

    Big A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Nov, 2018
    Posts:
    2,390
    Location:
    ?
    I actually sold out of my CLW holding a few months ago. Can’t remember the exact sell price but in the $4.40s. Shortly after it went all the way past $5. Not that I didn’t think it was good value at $4.40 but I was looking at offloading all individual share holdings and having only managed and index funds.
    Only individual share I still hold is COF. Once it recovers back to NTA I will offload it. At current value and yield it’s not worth rushing the offload.
     
  5. texanaust

    texanaust Active Member

    Joined:
    9th Apr, 2019
    Posts:
    27
    Location:
    Western Australia
    CLW is good buying right now. Not sure why its falling-did investors not like the David Jones purchase?
     
    Big A likes this.
  6. JasonC

    JasonC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    14th Mar, 2017
    Posts:
    256
    Location:
    Sydney
    A new Centuria Unlisted Property Fund landed in my inbox. Centuria Industrial Income Fund No.1 - targeting an equity raise of $39.74m for three industrial portfolio with a "diverse range of tenants across the logistics, manufacturing and distribution sectors".

    Basically a closed end fund (6 year term) with possible 2 yr extension (subject to 50% votes in favour) and any extension beyond that requiring 100% votes in favour.

    Properties in QLD (Crestmead and Boondall) and SA (Gillman).

    Regards,

    Jason
     
    Big A likes this.
  7. Big A

    Big A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Nov, 2018
    Posts:
    2,390
    Location:
    ?
    Yeah received that as well. On first appearances it doesn’t excite me enough to put anymore capital into unlisted property.
    Biggest turn off was the 20% performance fee with a benchmark return of 8%. Bit rich if you ask me.
     
  8. JasonC

    JasonC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    14th Mar, 2017
    Posts:
    256
    Location:
    Sydney
    I have some funds returned from one of my unlisted funds that I have been sitting on - hence why it piqued my interest. I don't have a lot of exposure to industrial commercial and with the trend towards to online sales this did interest me.

    However Charter Hall DIF4 is still open for investment so that could be alternate. It has rolling 5 year terms with the first ending in Nov 21 - not sure what the impact of that would be for me if I put in an additional investment now. Potential restructure/property sales etc at the end of the year if lots of investors want to pull out their funds.

    Regards,

    Jason
     
    Big A likes this.
  9. Big A

    Big A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Nov, 2018
    Posts:
    2,390
    Location:
    ?
    I wouldn’t worry about DIF4 wrapping up. I hold DIF3 and 4 and there is currently plenty of investor demand for industrial assets. They had a liquidity event for DIF4 recently and there was not much demand for redemptions. There was talk of possibly merging the 2 funds at some point.
     
  10. The Falcon

    The Falcon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    3,423
    Location:
    AU
    Yeah hurdle rates falling from 10% to 9% and now 8% it seems.
     
  11. The Falcon

    The Falcon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    3,423
    Location:
    AU
    Spoke with CH rep today, told them ideally want something with Wholesale minimums and fees without the fixed end dates...doesn’t exist at the moment. DIF4 and DOF probably the picks at the moment at retail level from what I can see.
     
  12. Big A

    Big A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Nov, 2018
    Posts:
    2,390
    Location:
    ?
    What’s next? Performance fee for anything above 0?


    I like both. Prefer DIF4 right now. Slightly higher yield and industrial is on the up and up, while DOF has already had a strong few years. Office is a little on the nose right now due to the uncertainties surrounding work from home, but with DOF holding high quality assets I can’t imagine they won’t always be in demand.
     
  13. The Falcon

    The Falcon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    3,423
    Location:
    AU
    Most egregious I’ve seen is hedge funds with performance fees at cash +1-2%.

    I tend to agree re DIF4....sheds are the area that I’d invest in if I was going direct. I’ve run the numbers on going small, direct (c.2m) vs something like DIF4 just using PPOR equity...there is very little in it in the numbers, with pros and cons on either side. Obviously you can’t scale the latter but wouldn’t be my intention to.
     
    Big A likes this.
  14. Big A

    Big A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Nov, 2018
    Posts:
    2,390
    Location:
    ?
    Yes I once held an active fund that was charging performance fees using the bank cash rate as the benchmark. I still can’t believe such a fund was recommended to me by a professional adviser.

    After my own experience and listening to other peoples experiences with advisers, I am seriously contemplating going back to studying and doing a degree in commerce and majoring in financial planning. Since I spend so much time educating myself on investing, I figured I might as well do it officially and get some recognition for it.
     
  15. The Falcon

    The Falcon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    3,423
    Location:
    AU
    On your last point the problem is having to deal with the punters...I couldn’t do it. Really unless someone has $5m minimum invested it’s hard to charge someone what you need to in order to both ; give a great service that adds value (there will be tax planning, estate planning, SMSF and multiple vehicles and portfolios) and have a good business yourself.
     
    Big A likes this.
  16. Big A

    Big A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Nov, 2018
    Posts:
    2,390
    Location:
    ?
    Agree. But I am not doing it to necessarily to make a career out of it. My intention is purely for self development. I would be doing it more for myself. At the same time because I have found a passion for this investing thing and just as much enjoy sharing what I have learnt, maybe there is something in it career wise.

    You are correct in saying its hard to provide a service that's good value and yet make it a viable business model. But what if making money out of it isn't the first priority? What if giving people good honest advice was priority number one then what ever financial return you get from that was priority two. Of course that's as long as your not loosing money in doing so.

    I am all for making more money but I think there might be something in such a model and if done right, by default it just might end up being big enough scale wise that it actually does make a viable business model. And if not, so what. That was not the original purpose of going out and getting certified.

    Do the right thing by people and it might turn out to be the best business model after all. That sounds some what like John Bogle and Vanguard. Hold on here, I might just be the next John Bogle / Vanguard. :p:p

    Ok I will stop daydreaming now. :D
     
    MsNewbieInvestor, kmrr and The Falcon like this.
  17. SatayKing

    SatayKing Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    20th Sep, 2017
    Posts:
    10,729
    Location:
    Extended Sabatical
    And it is possible you'd go broke within a week. Not for poor advice but from throttling the punters who would expect you to turn $100k into $2m within a year.

    One reason I turned down a position with a financial advisory firm.
     
    Never giveup, Big A and The Falcon like this.
  18. The Falcon

    The Falcon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    3,423
    Location:
    AU
    100% SK.
     
  19. JasonC

    JasonC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    14th Mar, 2017
    Posts:
    256
    Location:
    Sydney
    Big A,

    I've had the same thought myself. I'm aiming for work to be completely optional in 5 years time and getting some qualifications in financial planning might be quite interesting and beneficial given that the aim would be to be living off my investments - even if I had no intention to work as a financial planner.

    Jason
     
  20. The Falcon

    The Falcon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    3,423
    Location:
    AU
    @JasonC @Big A

    If you just want to learn about capital markets, portfolio management, investment theory etc you can find free or cheap MOOCs and lots of books.

    When you need specific tax / SMSF / estate planning advice you can pay for it.

    Financial planning stuff is going to teach you a lot of things that won’t relate to your situation (pensions, aged care, insurance, disability). A lot of it is compliance / documentation and very boring.

    Though I do understand the attraction to the space as 95% of providers are pure garbage. I’d be more inclined to get involved at operator / investor level and shape something.
     
    Big A likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.