Transfer over $10,000 to become illegal?

Discussion in 'Living Room' started by Lizzie, 1st Aug, 2019.

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  1. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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    I'm trying to work out what this draft proposal by the Treasury Office means as, especially with property, nothing is under $10,000 ... and what if you're buying a car privately ... or gifting the kids when they get their first mortgage ... or getting a solar/battery setup ... or basically any transaction nowadays.

    https://www.treasury.gov.au/sites/d...thYadDUJXUtrKhBIw7GeRmn9K2atekEVme6ebgcRoZX78

    It will soon become illegal to transfer more than $10,000 in cash to anyone or any entity.

    This is contained within the "Currency (Restrictions on the Use of Cash) Bill 2019" that the government is quietly trying to sneak through Parliament !

    Penalty: Imprisonment for 2 years or 120 penalty units, or both!
     
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  2. Terry_w

    Terry_w Broker, Lawyer, Tax advisor, Debt Recycle advisor Business Member

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    Can't you just pay via bank transfer?
     
  3. Propertunity

    Propertunity Exclusive Real Estate Buyers Agent Business Member

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    If Barnaby Joyce is paid monthly, then how will he get paid his $17,583 at the end of every month?? ($211K pa). :p
    Actually, come to think of it, how will I get paid? :eek:
     
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  4. Propertunity

    Propertunity Exclusive Real Estate Buyers Agent Business Member

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    The definition of cash in the link that @Lizzie has posted is physical currency AND digital. From page 7:
    cash means either or both of the following:7(a)digital currency;8(b)physical currency.
     
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  5. Dan Donoghue

    Dan Donoghue Well-Known Member

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    Surely this can't be (I read it and it seems you are correct but I can't believe it).

    So if you have a tax bill >10K. you can't legally pay it? And if you do the ATO is also committing a crime by accepting it?
     
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  6. Terry_w

    Terry_w Broker, Lawyer, Tax advisor, Debt Recycle advisor Business Member

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    cash means either or both of the following: 8 (a) digital currency; 9 (b) physical currency.

    digital currency has the meaning given by the Anti-Money Laundering and Counter-Terrorism Financing Act 2006


    "digital currency" means:value that:

    value, or a unit of account; and

    issued by or under the authority of a government body; and

    money (including through the crediting of an account) and may be used as consideration for the supply of goods or services; and

    digital currency by the AML/CTF Rules;

    digital currency for the purposes of this Act.


    ANTI-MONEY LAUNDERING AND COUNTER-TERRORISM FINANCING ACT 2006 - SECT 5 Definitions
     
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  7. Terry_w

    Terry_w Broker, Lawyer, Tax advisor, Debt Recycle advisor Business Member

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    that didn't paste right

    upload_2019-8-1_10-1-18.png
     
  8. Terry_w

    Terry_w Broker, Lawyer, Tax advisor, Debt Recycle advisor Business Member

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    I think digital currency would include things like bitcoin
     
  9. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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    That's what I'm trying to work out ... I can understand if it were, perhaps, a payment too/from overseas and without justification ... but for within Australia it's ridiculous.

    I initially thought the draft was a joke, but it's from the legit Treasury Office
     
  10. SatayKing

    SatayKing Well-Known Member

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    I suspect there is or will be something in the legislation which provides for the relevant Minister to allow for exceptions and the circumstances surrounding those exceptions. It's usual stuff with this sort of legislation.

    That is what us plebs need to get our heads around as well should the legislation come into effect.
     
  11. Barny

    Barny Well-Known Member

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    It hasn’t passed yet, you have 2 weeks to lobby.

    E9F112F3-80CE-41D2-B4C1-FAEABE217C83.jpeg
     
  12. D.T.

    D.T. Specialist Property Manager Business Member

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    Or my quarterly BAS :(
     
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  13. SatayKing

    SatayKing Well-Known Member

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    Sheese. No need to throw a wobbly until you see or actually know the fine print.

    Want to grind the share market to a halt where transactions of $20m+ are common?

    Transfers of $80k for account-based pensions in one hit from a SMSF?

    Many, many variations and these are more than likely going to be addressed in any associated regulations to the law if the legislation is passed by Parliament.
     
  14. Barny

    Barny Well-Known Member

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    Control over peoples money to keep people within the banking system.
     
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  15. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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    Emailed for clarification - be interesting to see what the reply is
     
    Last edited: 1st Aug, 2019
  16. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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    No wobbly - just would like to know the fine print "before" it become legislation
     
  17. Barny

    Barny Well-Known Member

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    This is massive and we should be throwing Wobblies.

    What happens if a bail in occurs? try taking your money out.
    What if rates go negative? try taking your money out.

    First it starts at 10,000 then it might be lowered to 1000 or even 2000.

    Here’s Europe

    D9DE5780-480D-40E0-BBC2-62F3E4D811DA.jpeg
     

    Attached Files:

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  18. JacM

    JacM VIC Buyer's Agent - Melbourne, Geelong, Ballarat Business Member

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    If bank transfers and BPAY are forbidden above $10k, it will be interesting to see "is that per transaction, or per day, or per week or whatever to a single recipient?"
     
  19. Terry_w

    Terry_w Broker, Lawyer, Tax advisor, Debt Recycle advisor Business Member

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    Common sense would suggest it would not apply to bank transactions.
    But the legislation doesn't seem to include an express exemption, but has this:

    (5) Subsections (1) and (3) do not apply to a payment that is:
    (a) of a kind specified by the Minister by legislative instrument;
    (b) made in circumstances specified by the Minister by legislative instrument; or
    (c) accepted in circumstances specified by the Minister by legislative instrument.

    Why is the exemption not built into the legislation i wonder.
     
  20. SatayKing

    SatayKing Well-Known Member

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    I'll hazard a guess. Easier and quicker via having the the Minister's determine the circumstances for exemption than by amending the legislation itself. Hmm, bypass Parliamentary scrutiny and debate although I understand regulations and some other instruments are subject to disallowance but I could be wrong on that aspect.

    Knew it was around somewhere.

    No. 19 - Disallowance – Parliament of Australia