tradesman refused to clear this debris

Discussion in 'Property Management' started by deezee, 22nd Oct, 2021.

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  1. deezee

    deezee Well-Known Member

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    Hi PC members,

    I had recently changed property manager. The new PM found this debris at the backyard -- left after the removal of 2 old sheds. I passed her the invoice [I had paid $950 to remove & dispose of the 2 sheds] so that she could get the respective tradesman to come back to clear the debris. Her assumption was: this debris should have been cleared together with the sheds removal.

    However, the tradesman refused to come back, as he claimed that it was not part of his job and that he had already reached the understanding with the previous PM to get another person to clear the debris.

    What should I do ?
     

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  2. wylie

    wylie Moderator Staff Member

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    Personally, rather than muck about with a tradie who clearly isn't cooperative, I'd get someone else in to clear it and just be done with it.
     
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  3. balwoges

    balwoges Well-Known Member

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    Check the original invoice to see if it includes 'remove rubbish from site' if it does
    1. Send copy of original invoice to tradesman with notice of your intention to take him to court if he does not complete his side of quote within 10 days.
    2. If rubbish not removed within 10 days, pay to have it removed at your cost.
    3. Lodge a complaint at magistrate's court for payment of your costs.
     
  4. Phoenix Pete

    Phoenix Pete Well-Known Member

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    What is the exact wording on the invoice? It looks like, as you state yourself, that the $950 was for the removal and disposal of 2 sheds only. Does the invoice say anything about debris?

    Can you hide the critical details on the invoice (names, addresses, phone numbers etc) and show us the invoice?

    Also, it's not very prudent to rely on the assumption (key word) of your current property manager. The wording of the invoice will tell the story.

    Maybe clearing the debris was not part of the tradesperson's job, hence his clear reluctance to return to the site and do extra work for nothing.... meaning that if removing the debris was not part of the job, it's a bit unfair to call the guy uncooperative.
     
    Last edited: 22nd Oct, 2021
  5. qak

    qak Well-Known Member

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    The photo is so unclear - is this debris the footing/slab for the shed?
     
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  6. wylie

    wylie Moderator Staff Member

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    Fair call. I think you get the drift of what I was trying to convey though?

    Even if he was meant to clear it, if this tradie refuses to come back, and is actually "uncooperative", I would still just pay to get it done and do as @balwoges suggests to try to have the original guy pay for it (if it was indeed included in his quote).
     
  7. Michael Mitchell

    Michael Mitchell Well-Known Member

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    From the photo it looks like that's the base of the shed and from the sounds the work order the job was to dismantle and remove the old shed not remove the base as well, so the tradies is probably right - with that said, it could have been the previous PM who didn't give the work order instruction properly, in that you wanted the base gone too and they forgot to include that in the job description.
     
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  8. wylie

    wylie Moderator Staff Member

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    I think quite differently after having done our development. Sometimes you just have to pay to get stuff done quickly, and worry about the intricacies once the work is done. The new tenant won't care who is paying for the clean up. They just expect a clear yard.
     
  9. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Well-Known Member

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    Did this PM arrange the work?

    Did they read the quote?

    Did they inspect the completed works or just paid on the say so of the contractor?
     
  10. Michael Mitchell

    Michael Mitchell Well-Known Member

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    Yep. I sent a job to pool shop to replace the filter medium in a pool filter, they sent the apprentice out, he left the old sand in a pile next to the filter thinking that was ok lol. I just took my spade and shoveled it in the garden, not worth making a fuss over.
     
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  11. Marg4000

    Marg4000 Well-Known Member

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    What is the “debris”?

    Doesn’t look like parts of a shed to me.
     
  12. deezee

    deezee Well-Known Member

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    I was invoiced $950 for the portion "2x Garden sheds and concrete base removal".
    Shouldn't this include removal of debris left behind ?
    Job was arranged by previous PM whom I had replaced due to other issues.
     

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  13. wylie

    wylie Moderator Staff Member

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    I would think "... and concrete base removal" means he believes he has done what he said he'd do. There is no mention of clearing debris. It is assumed and that's understandable, but it should have been clearer so there could have been no questions afterwards.

    Probably should have said "... and concrete base removal, clear up any debris".
     
  14. deezee

    deezee Well-Known Member

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    Here's photos of the old sheds, and the debris left after removal.
     

    Attached Files:

  15. wylie

    wylie Moderator Staff Member

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    So are the slabs showing in that second photo now gone? Your earlier photos are not very clear, but seem to show soil with some bits of broken brick, but no concrete slab.

    This photo shows a concrete slab. Did he remove the concrete?
     
  16. deezee

    deezee Well-Known Member

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    Previous PM invoiced me another $400 "to remove backyard rubbish" handled by her cleaner.
    It was only after new PM took over that I was informed that despite paying $950 + $400, the debris was still left behind.

    Is it common practice to be quoted separately: "Concrete base removal = $xx" + "disposal of debris =$xx", otherwise the mess would be left behind ? If so, the tradesman should have quoted and let me decide whether to proceed.

    On a separate matter, the painter whom the previous PM engaged (to paint the ceilings and walls) had dripped the paint all over the floor , cabinets and door knobs. My new PM had rang him to come back to clean up, but he refused. I had to pay new PM's cleaner to clean this up.

    I am rather new to investment property.

    In future with painting quote, should I get the painter to quote separately "clean up dripping paint from door knobs, floorings & cabinets = $xx" otherwise he could simply leave this mess too ?

    I have a feeling that I had been taken for a ride by the previous PM and her tradesmen.
     
  17. deezee

    deezee Well-Known Member

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    My new PM looked through the before and after photos in the file and deduced that the tradesman had removed the 2nd shed concrete base but left the debris behind. The 1st shed concrete base was left intact.
     
  18. wylie

    wylie Moderator Staff Member

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    Of course any painting quote doesn't need to add "clean up dripping paint from door knobs, floorings and carpets". That is understood. Sounds like a terrible painter and a terrible PM.

    If you paid another $400 "to remove backyard rubbish" and the first guy did remove the sheds and slab, then you must have been paying the second guy to clear the rubbish that is visible all over that yard, bits of timber leaning on the house, old bits and pieces of rubbish laying on the ground? Left by previous tenants?

    If he did that, then he's done what he quoted I would think. It's a shame it is not clear in the first photo you posted just what is left. It looks like dirt and some rocks.

    If you are going to lay grass, I'd ask that whoever is hired to do that is asked to clear the area of rocks before laying the grass.

    The job descriptions seem rather ambiguous.

    If the extra $400 was to remove stuff that is sitting there, bits of timber, general rubbish left by previous tenants, then I'd assume that was also done. If there is just dirt and some rocks left, that would possibly not have been seen to be within the scope of someone quoting to remove debris.

    Nothing is very clear unfortunately. Do you plan on laying grass on that bare patch. If so, ask for a quote to clear it of rocks, anything other than just dirt, and then your job should be easily understood.

    This seems a bit harsh perhaps, but I do believe the job descriptions are not actually clear enough to go back to either of those workers and say it wasn't done well enough (especially if the first photo does show rocks and dirt only - too hard to see clearly).

    So the quote and story is slightly more complicated than the first post, hence the confusion in the answers.
     
  19. Phoenix Pete

    Phoenix Pete Well-Known Member

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    TOTALLY AGREE with this.

    If the first post had included ALL the photos, a copy of the invoice and the poster's comments then we would have arrived at properly considered answers... rather than the speculation mentioned above because of gaps in the information.
     
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  20. Ronen

    Ronen Well-Known Member

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    It seems you were....
    However, not much you can do now. Chasing them will cost you more.

    Get someone to do the cleanup and move one.
    If you can, leave very negative review on the old PM everywhere you can.

    It's part of the game I guess.
     
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