Towering inferno - dangers of high rise living

The tragic London high rise fire is a warning to those of us that live in tall apartment blocks, it´s the main fear of mine living on the 8th floor of a block with a single dubious escape route. Fire doesn't give you any time, you need to have a plan, and a backup plan, and act fast. The advice from emergency services is not always good, as was the case in London and what I have experienced. The local authorities (here and in London) often say "stay where you are". I don´t know why they say this, but don´t stay, get out if you can.

Four years ago I was living in another apartment block in Barcelona on the sixth floor. A fire started on the second floor. I woke up to frantic door bell ringing from the street below, no answer, but then I smelt the smoke, opened the door and saw the corridor full of grey smoke. I grabbed my two young sons (one aged only 3 weeks at the time) and headed for the fire escape. It was thick smoke that got blacker as I descended. By the 4th floor I couldn't breath properly and had to retreat. It turned out a dead body was holding the second floor fire door open so smoke freely flowed into the fire escape. So I retreated to the top floor with another family. Because the fire was relatively low (2-3 floor) and the building was new and constructed of good resistant materials the fire brigade had the fire until control in an hour and they could reach us. Two people died however and some had to go to hospital including my infant son for smoke inhalation. Clearly fire resistance was a major failure in London but not surprising there are hundreds of old council tower blocks there (although it could have been the new cladding it is not known yet). Some people criticized me for trying to escape because we encountered the thick smoke but I believe that it should be attempted immediately if possible, rather than remaining in an unknown situation in an apartment.

My current place has no such fire protection doors around the central stairway. if there is a fire that consumes that area there is no escape. So I have rigged up a 30m rope & harness abseil system with good anchor from my terrace that we can use to descend outside the building, from different routes, and I know how to use it.

Anyway, be prepared, & keep your smoke alarms working.

 

I live in a Docklands tower and our building has been the subject of multi-million remediation works, principally to rectify non-existent fire sealing between apartments. But this only happened because the then chair of our Owners Corp committee pushed on with getting building defects attended to with no support from the building managers who had been appointed by the developer. I feel pretty safe now but what came out during the pre-works investigations doesn't inspire any confidence in building standards.

 

If there's one this this tragedy teaches us is don’t rely on other's for the safety and wellbeing of you and your loved ones. People make mistakes, don't leave your life in to human intervention.

We are fortunate to live in Country that has very high standards for design and construction of high rise buildings as well as proactive and reactive regulation. New buildings over 25 metres in height have the full blown set of protection- sprinklers, zone smoke control, early warning systems, two fire isolated stairs mandatory and stair pressurisation (even if a door to a stair was jammed open, smoke cannot physically infiltrate the stair).

The problem is there are still many old buildings in the country that complied with the requirements and standards at the time and legally not required to be upgraded.

My personal advice for everyone particularly people who live in old buildings:

- look at how your dwelling is constructed and protected - are there fire isolated stairs? Is there fire resisting construction? This will determine the best evac plan.

- have an evacuation procedure in place for your own family, residential buildings don't do fire drills so it doesn't hurt to do a fire drill for your own household so kids and elderly know which way to go and where the exits are even if it's dark and smoky, do the drill periodically. It sound silly but DO IT, better safe than sorry. Run them through the fire escapes 5 times to drill it into their heads. Are all valuables kept together in one place? There’s no time to grab any belongings in an evac to it doesn’t hurt to have them packed at all times ready to go. Do the cats and dogs have a carry box on standby so they can be carried out quickly?

- take note of where the extinguishers and hose reels of the buildings are. Doesn't hurt purchase your own extinguishers and fire blankets from Bunnings.

- make sure property is maintained - batteries in the smoke alarms? gaps underneath the main entry doors kept to a minimal, no obstructions for detectors or sprinklers.

Stay safe guys.

 

i think the main difference btw the London tower and for example towers in Melbourne are the fire protection systems. the fire sprinklers. I think some of the old housing commission do not have these. Also for buildings 3-4 stories, fire sprinklers are not required

I've been involved with building permits many times in refurbishing apartments taking down walls or moving walls every time you do this, you have to involve the fire engineer to move the sprinkler and also bring the sprinkler system down. there was an occasion I remembered that there was an occasion someone on my floor hit a sprinkler which then flooded the hallway.

I agree with @Tony3008 Melbourne code are very strict and but occasionally developers cut corners etc.

 

We live in a four storey building and we have fire sprinklers in all the apartments and hallways - we are on the second floor.

 

We live in the top floor of a three story building built on a hill- so out the back we are only one story up. After this horrible incident we have come up with an escape plan just in case (including how to get our dog out!). People might say it's super unlikely but when the impact is this horrendous, it pays to have something in place.

I remember in my old apartment which was built in the late 90's we had regular fire inspections and I used to find them SO ANNOYING as i'd have to stay at home that day etc- retrospectively I totally see the value.

 

Many moons ago I was managing the units in the 'Connaught' opposite Hyde Park and was very conscious of the dryers in the units which some never cleaned [full of lint] - this is another fire hazard.

 

Doubt emergency services gave that advice.
Emergency Services advice was always generally "Get Down Low, and Go Go Go".
With consideration for maybe covering your mouth with wet clothing to aid breathing.

Only a Muppet would say stay where you are.

So more likely some property manager type.

Just keep in mind your rope probably wouldnt have helped for the london building fire.

It started low and screamed up the outside of the building. It's not a case of the panels not being fire ******ent. It's a case of them being a very good fuel source under the right conditions. You have to be careful with aluminium, it can be easy to ignite.

 

im sure if you investigated every apartment block in the country or world, so many would be deemd unsafe,

hindsight is a wonderful thing,

I just hope they bring in some sort of legislation or system that makes any new and existing building safety compliant

 

Silly question but can you buy some sort of oxygen mask?

 

Oxygen is highly flamable. And the volume of air needed exceeds capacity of the container. eg the thing above a seat on a plane produces breathable air - For 5 minutes. If it was stored a pressure cylinder is needed and they are big and heavy. Think scuba.

 

I can only go off what Ive heard on the news over the past few days. Australia is no better than London. They have apartment blocks all over the country made out of the same cladding that the London inferno was made out of. The last apartment block fire similar to London was 2014 in Melbourne.

I think if you live in an apartment block, you need to have your own fire escape plan. Dont worry about what anyone else says or does. Its your life and you only get one shot at it.

Such a horrible tragedy. Hoepfully never to be repeated

 

FIrefighters use regular air in their breathing apparatus. 20.9% oxygen and 79.1% nitrogen. There's nothing special in their tanks other than the air has been filtered to avoid contaminants. High percentages of oxygen is not something you want anywhere near a fire.

 

No this really is the official advice given to people by the emergency service, to stay in their apartments. Maybe not in Australia but in the UK and Spain it is. I don´t agree, why take chances, get out immediately if you can (obviously not via the lift) and assess the situation from outside.
Row over why victims were told to stay in Grenfell Tower | Daily Mail Online

London fire: Why are people told to 'stay put'? - BBC News

At the least the rope is a second option, and I can access other parts of the upper building if only one external side is affected.
Looks like the company that installed the cladding saved a few bucks not installing the fireproof version, and they have done a lot of other work using the same materials.
Fireproof cladding on Grenfell would have cost £5k more | Daily Mail Online

 

When people are told to stay put in their appartment during a fire it's called 'protect in place.' It's not as simple as having a blanket rule of 'always evacuate' or 'always stay put.' That's a decision the fire brigade will often make upon assessing the conditions and location of the fire.

Without actually realising it @Casteller provided the perfect example of this. Instead of staying put and out of harms way the decision was made to leave the unit thus encountering thick smoke and having to retreat back up floors. It often only takes 3 or 4 breaths and it's curtains. If you had've succumbed to the smoke and gone down your kids would've been in massive trouble. In hind site if the building is constructed to code you would've been perfectly safe staying put.

In my 7 years as a Firie I've encountered very few unit fires that spread from the unit of origin so a big percentage of the time it is much safer keeping residents inside than evacuating (particularly if the fire is near the ground). People do stupid things under pressure and you can never underestimate the panic factor.

Old unit blocks often have fire stairs where the doors don't shut properly or are wedged open by occupants. Once smoke fills these it's incredibly hard to evacuate so often if it's a single unit fire best to stay put. London was something never encountered by the Firies there and you can't train for that stuff. They weren't to know upon arrival that the building would become fully involved in fire. Incredibly tough situation and always easy to dissect in hindsite.

But agreed with always having a home fire escape plan and practicing with the kids.

 

That-s all one can do --Be Prepared for the unknown---..One of the first items when we travel i always check is the fire escape stair wells ,and have a smoke mode detector with me all the time when we travel and study the escape sytems in place--Wife has asked every time why i do this first fire doors sprinklers smoke mode dectectors --AC units will all have fire dampers
will shut down the air flows --but the building materials used these days on the external internal cost factor claddings and the fire ratings that were signed off on would be causing some very sleepless nights for all those who signed off and the legal landslide they will now face...

 

Yeah I know that´s why I was criticized, but when you see smoke and it is increasing and you have no idea where it is, above, below, next door ? My reaction is to get out asap and not hang around waiting for someone else to help me. I´m pretty sure I would do the same thing again, very difficult to stay sitting in your flat while it fills up with smoke. In normal circumstances the fire escape is supposed to be protected but in my case was not.

Re travelling in other countries, I´ve seen some horrendous fire escapes, in Nepal and Egypt the door was padlocked at the bottom of the stairs.

 

Yeah sorry that was by no means criticism @Casteller just trying to explain the reason why this method is often employed. I think way more lives would be lost if the public was told 'always evacuate' than if the fire brigade is trusted to make an informed decision upon arrival.

 

For a building with no fire isolated stairs, no compartmentation, poor exit travel distances, no smoke management systems, the best hope you have might be to stay where you are, stay alive and hope emergency services get to you before you die.

They've got computer programs that do modelling for these scenarios, simulate a fire, simulate people evacuating etc. That's what fire engineers do. For a building designed to get people out, evacuating saves more lives, for a building that isn't, evacuating may result in more casualties. Once you're out of your apartment, anything can happen, run into smoke, fire, other disorientated and panicking people, get lost. Very scary.

No matter where you are, at home, in a house, an apartment, a pub, a club, a festival, a restaurant, a concert, always have a plan and always note where you're nearest exits are, they do these presentations at the beginning of every flight for a reason.

 

I attended a risk assessment course and the very experienced guy leading it said you should practice evacuating from your house with your eyes closed, and crawling along the floor, as if in heavy smoke.

He said people often get confused in heavy smoke and we need to learn where we are without visual clues. So for example, practice what it feels like to find the back door, by feeling the change between carpet and tiles.

Also, what to do if the hall is blocked. Can a window be used for escape?