The upside to a Trump presidency

Trump is a fraud

 

How so?

Anyway; more upside;
CBO: House-approved health care bill to lower premiums, stabilize marketplace

Let's be very clear; there were many, many thousands who still had Healthcare under Obamacare - who couldn't possibly hope to afford their premiums, and/or couldn't possibly hope to afford their Gap payment.

So; they were effectively without Healthcare anyway.

Under the new Bill, people with pre-existing conditions can still get covergae, but like going to buy insurance foe an older, damaged vehicle; it will cost yuou more. That's life and people need to get used to that reality.

You simply cannot expect an insurance Company to charge thew same rate for the 23 year old perfectly healthy adult, and then charge the same asmount for the 45 year old person with say; diabetes who is on dialysis every other day for the rest of their life.

This is dreamland stuff, and is why the result was Obamacare dying a death, and many hundreds of Insurers pulling out of the scheme.

The end result of this change will be more freedom in the market, and more choice - which will promote more competition, more lower premiums etc based on the individual's situation. That is a fair system, and the vast majority's Healthcare will come down.

Is it unfair on the already sick? Possibly; but they can still get coverage for their pre-existing, and can still opt to go on public Healthcare.

Personally; I also think they need to really look much closer at the medical supply side of the equation; the cost of pharmaceuticals, equipment etc; waaay over the top.

 

BV we are very lucky in Australia to have the health care system we have

 

More upside from the Trumpster:
Trump Budget Stops Cash Payments to Illegal Immigrants

 

Their budget office released their report on it, estimated 23 million people will lose health coverage (fox news link for you).
CBO Score: Republicans, Democrats react

You don´t cut a trillion dollars from something and expect it to be better, of course Trumps plan will be a lot worse. It´s estimated Obamacare saved over 10,000 lives a year by giving more people access to health care, so Trumps plan will reverse this and literally kill people.

 

Any Healthcare system will save lives..that's what they are there for.

So; you honestly believe that the new scheme - passed in the Senate - was deliberately created to try and kill people, and signed off by both the Dems and the Reps?

More people might have had ACCESS to Obamacare; but as the results have shown; towards the end; it was - and is - imploding Bigly.....

*The Insurers were leaving in droves because they couldn't make any dough (having to cover the pre-existing illness crowd and more sick, while not getting the younger and more healthy folks, while those who stayed in the scheme had to hike the premiums and Gap payments to cover the losses;
*The punters couldn't afford the premiums,
*The punters couldn't afford the Gap payment.

Sooo; already there are millions on this scheme who are "insured" but cannot ever realistically use it.

Spin it anyway you can; but these are the realities.

Here’s How Much Obamacare Premiums Are Rising in All 50 States

What you are saying is basically the same things straight out of the Dem's playbook, and their media mates...complete BS hyperbole.

If Obamacare was so great; why did Trump spend a year banging on about replacing it?

If it was such as winner; his Campaign pitch would have been a total dud...but he won; remember?

If Obamacare was so great; why are did all the insurers leave, and are still leaving?

If Obamacare was so great; why did the Senate vote in the new Bill?

By the way; the Veteran's Healthcare - funded and run by the Fed Government - sees many many hundreds of Veterans die each year due to having to wait for their treatments....so; the Healthcare system was a real winner, winner, chicken dinner.

I've already covered in a previous post how the new scheme will be better.

Don't forget; it will be a multi-phase proposition; it will have to go through the House and then eventually get signed off by the Trumpster; so there is a lot more work to be done to perfect it.

One more thing; the previous CBO scores on Obamacare missed the barn completely, so we can forget paying any attention to them.

 

Yes, its deliberate they are trying kill people. They are still working out who are the Democrats, they are first to go..... sorry but it was so funny and seriously silly, I could not help myself.

 

Is that all?

Any points or argument to go with that theory for our debate?

 

More Trumpster upside;
Historically Black College Leader Compared Obama and Trump... Sorry, Barack

 

Blue Cross & Blue Shield exits ObamaCare exchange in Kansas, Missouri

 

....... absolutely, move on..... what has that got to do with running a country.

 

No.. that´s not what I said. But that will be the consequence as millions of people lose their health coverage. Congress was pressured, people were conned and lied to, & most of them Trump supporters ironically, that will lose their health insurance. Trump will not deliver what he told them, he lied to get votes. They realize this now and protest loudly at their town halls, but too late, Trump rammed through an inadequate bill before it could be properly analysed (that independent analysis only released yesterday predicting that 23 million will lose health insurance). Of course some people die when health insurance is taken away from them, and some live when they gain access. The statistics prove this.

Subsequently this issue is probably what will finish Trump off, both at the next election and in the mid terms next year (if the various investigations don´t get him first).

And no, zero democrats voted for this. Unanimously opposed by all medical groups also.

 

I think that this is what happened with Obamacare too?

But anyway; they didn't "ram it through" - it was voted on by the Seante - after it was revised and altered to get a higher level of support to get it passed.

So; instead of heaping all this rubbish on Trump; folks need to also complain about the Dems - if they think this new stage 1 Bill is unfair.

Look; that 23 million figure always has the words "possibly lose", or "potentially lose" tacked on the front of the sentences, and so on. It might happen; it might not.

But it always comes back to the same premise; everyone has now come to the point where they expect to get free Healthcare provided by the Government...they now believe it is a right.

It is not a right. The Govt can and tries to provide health care for most...we have Medicare; they have Medicaid.

It's a socialist kumbaya dream that everyone pays the same amount no matter how much they lean on the Insurances - and cannot ever occur and work effectively; it will ultimately send whatever Insurers out of the system - and is doing; and has done - exactly that so far, and; any Country that attempts it through Public Health - unless they tax the bejeezes out of everyone to fund it.

More taxes paid by many who don't need it, to cover the costs of those who use it a lot.

The 23 million you keep on talking about can still have their Private health insurance, and when the final Bill is passed it will boil down to more choice, more competition among insurers - which lowers premiums, more options within the plans - which allows the less sick to pay less, and the more sick to pay more - as they should.

"People who are less healthy (including those with preexisting or newly acquired medical conditions) would ultimately be unable to purchase comprehensive non-group health insurance at premiums comparable to those under current law, if they could purchase it at all," the CBO report said.

As has been said several times now; and I have already provided a link to average increases in premiums under Obamacare this year; not only are the premiums and Gap payments becoming out of reach for most people, but they are also running out of Insurers to provide it anyway.

"The report makes clear Trumpcare would be a cancer on the American healthcare system," Senate Democratic leader Chuck Schumer said at a news conference.

And what is Obamacare now, Chuck?..a dead duck that no Insurers will participate in, no-one can afford the premiums, and no-one can afford the Gap payments.

 

Um; you did say "literally kill people".

That's like me saying that if I double the prices of labour cost to fix cars in my workshop, and the customers cannot afford the cost of the services, and if they then crash and die; it's my fault.

Rubbish hyperbole.

Many, many people effectively currently have that scenario under their Obamacare plan...the Dems and the Left are constantly running around saying Obamacare is ok - when it is clearly a failure..."but it's healthcare!!" - yet they can't afford it, and so it would be fair to say they are already dying in many cases as a result.

FWIW; the system was crap when I lived there in 2005-08; far too expensive even then; and has only got worse.

For example; the best Private Healthcare plan I could get for us - average wage earners at the time - was a 75% cover - unless I was a high income earner. Our plan would have cost in excess of $600 PER MONTH.

Now; apply this premium and Gap payment to yer bog-standard appendix operation, which would have cost back then - approx $10k if you went Private. So; $2500 out of my pocket for that every-day operation, plus $7200+ per year premiums.

So, we ended up buying 100% cover Travel Insurance through the RACV here in Aus instead..it was the only way we could get affordable cover.

They already are - effectively. The average punter cannot afford what's currently on offer, and even if they could; many States have bugger-all insurers offering the coverage.

If there are only one or two Insurers offering the cover in each State - which means less competition - and currently the punters cannot shop interstate for their plans as well - guess what happens to the premiums and Gap payments?

 

Yes: I said removing health care from millions from people will literally kill people
No: I didn't say what you said ("was deliberately created to try and kill people")
Yes: your comparison is ridiculous and illogical.
Fact: Obamacare has given millions healthcare.
Fact: Lives have been saved because of this
Repealing the Affordable Care Act will kill more than 43,000 people annually
(perhaps an over estimate, difficult to quantify, I have seen estimates from 10,000 to 43,000 lives a year saved by Obamacare)

 

I and many many others would say that basic free (or almost) health care is a right in an advanced wealthy country. Universal health care is also the cheapest system.

I'd add basic free education as a right too. Do you believe we should be charging parents for their kid's education?

 

Basic Government Healthcare is still available.

The difference is; everyone assumes they have a right to free comprehensive Heathcare.

That is a perfect world, kumbaya mindset among the socialists.

In theory, you could have it, but where is the money coming from to pay for it?

I would love free healthcare, but how much of our wage would be left after the Gubb sticks it's fingers in our pockets to fund it?

You guys need to be patient; this Healthcare Bill will take months to finalise, and when it does; the competition will be back amongst the Insurers (lower premiums), the choice will be back, the options within the plans will be there, and folks will be able to tailor their plan to suit their circumstances.

 

How basic? You posted an exemplar of an appendectomy costing $10k. Not covered by the govt? That's pretty basic health care.

Who is the 'everyone' if I was 95 I wouldn't expect a free hip replacement.

It's an emotive and complex issue. The relatives of granny probably would expect a free hip.

In Australia the billions of middle-class welfare.

 

Ultimately when it boils down to it there are people who vote based on a candidates proposed policies and promises and those who vote based on some inherent bias that completely ignores policy. For the sake of sanity I'll ignore the 2nd group because quite frankly they are idiots.

Looking at the first group, ultimately Trump the president is doing things that trump the candidate clearly and repeatedly expressed he disagrees with and would never do.

He repeatedly and proudly stated that unlike typical Republicans he would not cut Medicaid and social security
Turns out his budget cuts it by close to 50%.

He stated repeatedly no one at all would be worse off under his health care plan. You are now seeing cases where a 64 year old on 27k income will see premium increasing from $1500 or so to nearly $13k

Now ultimatrly if someone who supported trump prior ton election isn't at the very least disappointed with what has been proposed then i genuinely question their motives

Let's also not forget that the wall which was a big part of the election promises has the entire amount of zero.dollars allocated in the budget.

I suppose it's not all.thay surprising considering America only allocated 2% of federal budget for education

Yes, 2%. And of course this was one sector where trump decided should get a 13.5% cut in budget. All while increasing spending on the military and cutting taxes for the top 1,% who of course would not be affected by cuts to Medicaid, the education system, removal of meals on wheels, cuts to after school.programs etc.

Pathetic to.ignore the fact that his budget is in complete opposition to pre election rhetoric

 

It's easy for trump supporters in Australia who enjoy the benefits of Medicare to pretend that they would be happy with the trump healthcare plan if they were actually affected