Sports & Fitness The Running Thread (All Abilities)

Discussion in 'Living Room' started by Propagate, 28th Jun, 2017.

Join Australia's most dynamic and respected property investment community
  1. Propagate

    Propagate Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    1,495
    Location:
    Melbourne
    That's the weird thing though, although it ended up almost my fastest 10k (45 seconds off PB) run it certainly didn't feel fast, I kept having to consciously knock the pace off when I felt like I was going too quick, (a glance at the watch showed pace creeping up toward 4:20/30 minute k's so I'd back it right off until I was back to 5/minutes k's). The longest run I've done in weeks has been 7k, I've been doing Fartleks on the oval for a while though instead, and wound my "long runs" back to around 5k, staying at conversation pace and really watching form, this seemed to naturally fall around the 5 minute k's.

    Yesterday's 10k felt like a slow run, it was conversation paced and I pulled up at the end feeling great, barely out of breath. I think the thing is, the last time I ran a 10k, (as an out-and-out aiming for a PB), I'd only just got to the point of being able to run a 10k at all so I really had no business trying to put a good time in on one. I pulled up absolutely smashed. This time though, I have a lot more base and fitness under my belt so it didn't feel like a chore at all.

    Interestingly you say that about the static stretches, yes, they were static stretches prior to the run and I had just read the same thing about not doing statics before a run. I'll have a to read up a bit more. It seemed to help though, particularly for the hip.

    I think the other thing that's helped is starting off very slow, looking back at Strava it seems I've had a tendency to shoot off at the start way too fast then spend ages trying to settle back into a rhythm. I don't think that's helped cold muscles! The last couple of runs I've really tried to consciously set off much slower and warm up slowly.

    The HR stuff is very interesting, I've not long had a HR monitor and have been reading a lot about the zones and winding the pace right off back to lower zones. Trouble is, my HR is up at 120 just walking! I have a pretty low resting heart rate, (been down to 37 some evenings and generally sits around 43-45) yet my working HR seems pretty high. I'm 41, so 220-41 should be a theoretical Max HR of 179. Using the Heart Rate Reserve formula and basing on say the upper end of my resting rate at 45 my reserve is 179-45 = 134. Fat Burn zone of 50-75% of reserve would result in a range of 112 to 146. My cruising conversation pace at the moment is sitting around 162/163 bpm. Sounds high, but a few months back it was in the high 170's low 180's at what felt like a slow pace and still able to have a conversation! It's trending in the right direction, but I am keen to explore the idea of winding really far back and trying to stay under 150bpm, though I reckon that'd end up just being a long walk ;-)
     
    paulF likes this.
  2. vbplease

    vbplease Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    1,575
    Location:
    Brisbane
    It sounds like you're yielding some great results from your fartlek training.. which is setting you up to smash your 10k PB.
    But.. I'd be investing in base running. Imo, it will be the best training to set you up for you marathon coming up, and will nature your injury ;)
     
    paulF likes this.
  3. Propagate

    Propagate Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    1,495
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Agree, but it's hard to find the time to get enough long runs in in a week. I'd read a bit about 3 day per week training, one "easy day", one Fartlek style day and one long run day. Seemed to make sense to me for the available time I have per week to run. I guess I'll just have to tell the Boss to shove his job so I can spend more time running..... oh, wait, I am the Boss! Right, where's my runners!
     
  4. paulF

    paulF Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    28th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    2,103
    Location:
    Melbourne
    A good thing to keep in mind with running is the 'compounding' micro effects that it has on the body and how hard it is for the body to adapt to such trauma (hence the 10% rule...)

    Allowing the body to adapt to the intensity/frequency/volume of workouts is crucial and also good to keep in mind that it's not just muscles in play, it's also ligaments and bones and cartilage and even changes on the cellular level... All that stuff need to adapt and even though we might not feel too shabby after a few long hard runs, the body would still be suffering and it will put up with it until it can't ...
     
  5. Propagate

    Propagate Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    1,495
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Indeed, that's what I found tough early on - my engine and big legs muscles were fine from all the riding, but all the little interconnecting muscles, joints, tendons etc just got smashed after every run. It was very frustrating as the engine just wanted to go but nothing else was up to the task.
     
    Ace in the Hole and paulF like this.
  6. Ace in the Hole

    Ace in the Hole Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    2,872
    Location:
    Sydney
    So true.
    It's difficult to hold back sometimes when you're feeling good, but overdoing and injury is a lagging result.
    You don't realise you did too much too soon until it's too late, story of my life and just figuring it out now.
    Good point about the ligaments and tendons, etc.
    Muscles can get strong quick, but all the connective tissue takes much longer to adapt.
     
    paulF, Propagate and Player like this.
  7. Ace in the Hole

    Ace in the Hole Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    2,872
    Location:
    Sydney
    Maybe different effects for different people.
    After almost 2 weeks of stretch sessions at 3 sessions per week, I'm feeling much better in the glutes and hamstrings.
    Prior to this has constant dull pains and strains in those areas.
    Had a session of 12 x 60m runs with 1 min rest, almost died at the end.
    Was running them at 7.5s with a 5m jog lead in.
    The rugby pitch was mostly dirt so results on the track would have been better.
    The thing I'm most happy about is feeling great physically now and injury free.
    Looking to enter my first race late this year or early next year, but very nervous about it having no track experience at all.
     
    Hodor, paulF, Propagate and 1 other person like this.
  8. el caballo

    el caballo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    21st Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    211
    Location:
    Australia
    Those nerves will serve you well. It's a great thing to feel nerves in your gut as it means you are pushing yourself. It's great to hear you are progressing so well, and feeling so great about it!

    PS: On the stretching, I found it most beneficial in the initial phase, but once that extreme tightness dissipated, I personally found massage to be more efficacious.
     
    paulF likes this.
  9. Propagate

    Propagate Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    1,495
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Gutted, I've blown out my damn back again! It was a little niggle for a week or so after the hand-stands in Yoga last week. Monday's run was the best in in ages then Monday night gentle Yin Yoga was a great stretch.

    Tuesday was fine, just the little niggle still from the disc from the hand stands then Yoga Tuesday night it went to pot. Coming out of one of the seated twisting poses and I felt it go, couldn't even lie back down on the mat, had to get my breath and get myself up off the floor and just slowly shuffle round the studio for a bit. I could walk, just, but by the time I got home I was in a bit of strife.

    Had a terrible night sleep, could not get into a position where it didn't hurt.

    Wednesday morning the whole lot had gone into spasm again so took ages to get out of bed, Emma had to put my shoes on me and help me into the car.

    I've done this many times in my life, (inherited my mum's back and disc issues, she's almost wheelchair bound now at 65 and is on the NHS waiting list in the UK for spine surgery just now), and having known this feeling before I figured I was in for 2-3 weeks of inactivity until it loosed up then a few more weeks of gentle exercise only. Lucky it didn't give out completely, (I've had times in my early 20's where it's spasm'd and I've literately been confined to the floor for weeks at a time unable to move and in pain just to breathe!).

    Anyway, looks like the Yoga has really helped as by Wednesday night I had about 80% movement back and today feels pretty good too, stiff first thing but a lot looser. I'll look at it as a forced rest and see how it pulls up by Sunday before I decide to do any exercise.

    I got a bit over confident in the twists in Yoga I think. Should've know better as it's always the twisting motion at the lower back that has thrown it out in the passed. I just have to remember that, even if I'm feeling good in a twist pose, it's not something my back likes at all so I need to not go so deep into them.
     
    paulF likes this.
  10. paulF

    paulF Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    28th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    2,103
    Location:
    Melbourne
    @Propagate, back pain is linked to weak lower back and core muscles so you really can't go wrong with a core exercise routine. It will also help with running form.
    Try including some core training in your program if possible. Not crunches or anything like that but more isometrics like planks, side planks, six inch holds... that stuff would also strengthen your lower back too while at it.
    One other thing, if you sleep on your back, chuck a pillow under your knees. That will reduce stress on your hips and lower back too while sleeping.
     
  11. Propagate

    Propagate Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    1,495
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Thanks @paulF makes sense, which is also why I think it's coming good quicker this time, (two of the yoga classes I do per week are very plank/strength based).

    The underlying issue is the disc though, I have a bulging disc so I just have to watch the twisting, aggravating the disc shuts the rest of the lower back down.

    When I started this thread I was just coming back from a 5 week layoff of all exercise, buggered the disc doing tucked knee raises with a twist at the top, put me out of action for ages.
     
    paulF likes this.
  12. vbplease

    vbplease Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    1,575
    Location:
    Brisbane
    ouch! sorry to hear about the back troubles @Propagate, hope it gets better soon and you're able to work on the underlying issue.
     
    Propagate likes this.
  13. RS Gumby

    RS Gumby Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    1st Apr, 2016
    Posts:
    241
    Location:
    victoria
    Tone
    This might sound ridiculous but I had a bad back in my early teens then took up weights to strengthen the muscles in the back as well as my core. No problems since. Maybe some gym sessions might be the go. Maybe Ace can come up with the appropriate exercises?
     
    Hodor and Propagate like this.
  14. Propagate

    Propagate Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    1,495
    Location:
    Melbourne
    I agree @duanerek and I do a fair bit of core & lower back strength stuff, but the underlying issue is a bulging disc. Strengthening the core has definitely helped and I'm sure that's the reason why it's coming good so quick this time, but there's not much I can do about the disc aside from being very careful not to move into a position that aggravates it, particularly under load (like twisting hanging knee tucks... ;-) )
     
    RS Gumby likes this.
  15. mrdobalina

    mrdobalina Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    22nd Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    1,930
    Location:
    there's more to life than working
    I guess everybody is different in how their heart rate responds to physical activity. I know some sub-3 hour marathoners who have very low cruising heart rates, whilst others very high.

    I'm about the same age as you, and comparatively, my easy conversational runs are usually less than 130bpm. My anaerobic threshold heart rate is about 162bpm.
     
    Propagate likes this.
  16. Heinz57

    Heinz57 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    1,961
    Location:
    Paradise
    Patience and calm. Physio and rest. Get well soon.

    Sometimes injury rehab is Up one Ladder down 2 snakes.
     
    mrdobalina and Propagate like this.
  17. Ace in the Hole

    Ace in the Hole Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    2,872
    Location:
    Sydney
    Agree with this.
    When I first attempted sprinting 2 years ago I'd always get a sore lower back every time.
    Now after doing lots of core work, even the most intense sprint sessions don't bother my back at all.
    Also use to put my back out for a week or two from squats every 6 months or so in the way @Propagate describes but that doesn't happen anymore.
    Gymnastics type hollow holds and hollow rocks are awesome.
    Single leg strengthening leg and core exercises are also awesome.
    Most training exercises should be done on one leg to balance the body and strengthen it in the manner you would run.
     
    Propagate likes this.
  18. Propagate

    Propagate Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    1,495
    Location:
    Melbourne
  19. Ace in the Hole

    Ace in the Hole Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    2,872
    Location:
    Sydney
    All the core exercises on this link are good.
    Hollow Variations – Kati Breazeal

    They may not seem difficult looking at them, but doing something like hollow rock for 4 x 60s with 90s rest between sets is much harder than it looks.
    Try them when your back gets better.
    These should bulletproof your back.

    I just watched the example in the link above, her form is not very good for the hollow rock.
    This example is better - Hollow Rock
    It will smash you when done right, in a good way.
     
    Last edited: 12th Aug, 2017
    Hodor and Propagate like this.
  20. Propagate

    Propagate Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    1,495
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Great link, thanks @Ace in the Hole I'll definitely look to add some of those into the routines once it's come good enough again. Cheers.