Sports & Fitness The Running Thread (All Abilities)

Discussion in 'Living Room' started by Propagate, 28th Jun, 2017.

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  1. RS Gumby

    RS Gumby Well-Known Member

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    Point taken Hodor. I'm pretty regimented so it's easy for me. Keep running mate
     
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  2. mrdobalina

    mrdobalina Well-Known Member

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    I can't recall, but do you have problems with injuries to your knees or quads?

    Lower cadence generally leads to overstriding and heel striking. This acts like a breaking mechanism, and creates more force on your knees and quads, leading to more injuries to those parts of the body. However, higher cadence and striking on mid/fore foot has higher impact on the calfs.

    There are a few running drills which gets your legs used to faster rotation and activates the muscles - A skips, butt kicks, fast feet, skipping, strides, etc.
     
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  3. mrdobalina

    mrdobalina Well-Known Member

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    Interesting. Thanks for the tip.
     
  4. Propagate

    Propagate Well-Known Member

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    Had an issue with a bulging disc in my lower back, then my hip gave out. The back has come good (fingers crossed) and the hip is still "there", but I think I got to the bottom of it. My right glute was barely activating so I was running off the smaller hip muscles and using the piriformis too much, so got a bit of sciatica type issues from that.

    I really have to concentrate on activating that right glute constantly and is seems to keep me on track now. When I get tired and form slips the hip starts to let me know and I wind back and concentrate on form again.

    I run mid to forefoot strike already, (When I started this whole lark in January I started on very minim shoes and still run on a very low drop trail shoe).

    I think my froward stride is pretty good, as in my leading foot is landing pretty much underneath me. My trailing leg seems to be the long stride, it feels so alien and tough to get the cadence up just now.

    I'm going to stick to my plan, keep adding in distance and not worry about cadence or speed yet (but really watching general form). Keep building that base up the the 12 month mark then try for a first marathon distance.

    After that I'll add back in the speed day and start working on the cadence a little through next year.

    Current next target is 42k in February (on my 42md birthday)
    50k goal by say March'April time
    75k goal by July/August
    100k goal around this time next year

    Had a weekend away with the better half in the big smoke so took the opportunity to have my first go at The Tan!

    Ran it with Emma on Saturday, nice and slow as Emma hasn't been running long. Enjoyed it, so got up early doors on Monday and ran from the hotel (Pan Pacific at South Bank), ran the gauntlet of racing commuter bikes along South Bank, crossed the road and cut through to the Tan, ran a lap of the Tan (I was really struggling the whole way to be honest, it was very hot and humid). I was smashed by the time I did my loop so had a little walk through Alexandra Gardens (I think that's what they are called?). Up the stairs under the art center (my quads did not like that) then ran back along South Bank and zig zagged the river a couple of times over various bridges. Wound up runnin down the far side to the Web Dock bridge, over that and back to the hotel for about 11k all up.

    It felt like I was running very slow and it felt very hard (probably due to hitting the 2 hours of free bar in the club lounge pretty hard the night before ;-) yet when I uploaded my data I'd PB'd 1k, 1 mile, 5k and 10k!!

    5k came in at 22 mintutes and 10k at 46 minutes. Pretty stoked with that. There was a little glitch in the GPS due to the buildings that cheated a bit of time in my favor, but I also had to wait at a couple of traffic lights to cross roads so they pretty much worked each other out.

    Going for a relativity flat 25k tomorrow, I'd like to try and go under 2 hours for half marathon 21k, see how we go. Was going to go for a 30k again but a flat one but I want to run trails with friends Sunday morning, so I'll go for 25 tomorrow and save a little leg for a social train run with mates on Sunday. Be interesting to see how doubling up goes!

    Have a good weekend everyone, get out and run somewhere fun!
     
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  5. Propagate

    Propagate Well-Known Member

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    Well, I did it but it wasn't pretty! Saturday was so hot. I left home at 7am and was cruising really nice to about 12k when the sun started getting pretty fierce. At about 19k I plain ran our of fuel and fluid and completely bonked. It just got too hot too quickly. I walked/ran the last 5-6k and came good after I cooled down and ate and drank a heap. Pretty happy to pull of a PB for the half marathon though at 1:56. That's another goal fallen (sub 2 hour half marathon). I did sit there at breakfast thinking how on earth am I going to double that distance! I found it a lot harder than the steeper trail 30k I did the other week, so I'm hoping the heat played more a part than anything.

    Sunday a few mates and I went up and ran the Seawinds section of the Two Bays trail. Man, that's a tough run. My legs were dead for the first 6k fro Saturdays run, then they came good all of a sudden and I felt great (aside from some niggly hip/knee soreness from so much pavement pounding Saturday). There's a monstrous hill half way and the down hill is super steep and rocky as. I've only done it once before at the end of a much longer run and the down hill was terrible, this time though my legs had come good and I felt really strong coming down the rocky downhill trail, I smashed it and had a massive grin ear-to-ear the whole way down. Absolutely ZERO chance I could have pulled up if I'd needed to, way too much momentum. Felt like I was on my mountain bike but without the bike!

    Couple of rest days now and then a light leg stretch out on Wednesday I reckon.

    Hope everyone had a good weekend, running or otherwise.
     
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  6. paulF

    paulF Well-Known Member

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    @Propagate , good to see you are hitting your goals and you are absolutely right about the heat. We loose performance in host weather especially on longer runs(5K and up) so breaking your limits in summer will be harder but you'll get used to it.

    Careful with all that distance you are doing. Few days of rest will not cut it. As mentioned before, you might feel well rested but your body would still be recovering. Definitely run though but not as hard/long as usual.

    Keep some water with you on your long runs and some carb gel tubes or lollies. Would help keep you well fuelled for a bit longer.

    I've been adding some HIIT to my weekly schedule and it's feeling really good having a quick leg turnover. Can't maintain speed for long or do many repetitions but coming a long well. Still a bit unsure on what kind of intervals is best to better my 5K runs so still experimenting with speed and distance of the intervals...

    It's been a while since i've done a trail run so planning on going to Kinglake National park next week for a 15-20k hike/jog.
     
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  7. Propagate

    Propagate Well-Known Member

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    No doubt. My mid-week runs are usually 6-7k and a just at a very easy pace to loosen everything back off. I'm not doing huge k's every weekend run, I back it back off a bit then build up to another milestone. So for example I'll do maybe 5-6k slow around the oval outside work this Wednesday then I've a 15k easy trail run on Sunday to look forward too. I'll build the weekend ones back up to 18-20 over the next 4-5 weeks and next goal is make 30-35k late December. We're off to Bright in 5 weeks for Christmas so I thought I'd get Emma to drop me off 35k shy of Bright and I'll run the bike path into bright then a few easy ones around bright over Christmas.

    Then I'll knock back down to weekly 15-20's and aim for the 42 at the start of February.

    I'll try running with my MTB camel back reservoir on Wednesday, see how that feels. I definitely need to sort out some on-body hydration now the longer runs are getting longer and the days are getting hotter.

    @paulF If you're ever down the Peninsula give me a shout we can run a section of Two Bays, it's a sensational run. You'll just have to wait for me with all the HIT work though ;-)
     
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  8. mrdobalina

    mrdobalina Well-Known Member

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    Are you planning for a marathon in early February? Do you have a training plan and what does it look like?
     
  9. Propagate

    Propagate Well-Known Member

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    That's the plan @mrdobalina yes. Not an official marathon, just my own route and marathon distance.

    Haven't done a strict training plan as such. I followed the Couch to 10k plan when I first started, followed that strictly then once I was doing regular 10k's I've just down my own thing.

    I don't want to run a marathon, I want to be a marathon runner....I reckon I could have a crack at 42k now, it would not be pretty but I could say I've done it and move on. Whereas, I want to be able to regularly put out marathon size runs and move on to longer and longer ones, so my home brew "training" has been geared toward getting the bigger distances up at a point where it's not breaking me.

    I've a couple of mates that have been running a while, they're pretty slow on trails (not that I'm lighting mind you), but I love the trail running and the social side, so my trail runs have been pretty cruisy.

    My home-brew training plan has generally been along the lines of a long run at the weekend and one or two easy 6-7k runs in the week. The long run has been dictated by gradually increasing the distance to a point where I'm warn out at the end but not destroyed, so for example I spent a few weeks around 12-17k then when they were feeling routine I did a 21k, then back it off to weekly 15-18k's. Then did a 24k and back off to weekly 18-20's the a few weeks ago did a 30k, so then back it right off a couple of weeks to 12-15's and some trail runs then popped in a 25k Saturday and backed it up with a trial run Sunday.

    I'll, bacl off again now and make the weekly runs 20k ish and go for a 30-35 early December, then make the weeklies 20-25 until late January, have an easy week or two then try the 42.

    All the while keeping the mid week leg loosener easy run going.

    So far it seems to be working, my long runs are getting easier and I'm pulling up pretty good afterwards.

    I've been gauging effort based on heart rate. I seem to have a massive range, my resting HR has been as low as 36, (usually it sits around 44-45) but my max HR can spike up north of 195 (I'm 41 years old btw).

    Chatting, easy paced recovery runs my HR sits around 150. My long solo runs I watch the HR and try and stay around 160, backing off for hills to tray and keep it steady at 160. This seems to be a good HR for me in terms of endurance and pace. My legs and fuel give out before my lungs do and it's taking longer and longer to reach that point.

    EDITED to add - if I do a short speedy run, say 5 to 7k at a pace where conversation is difficult but I'm not "all out" then my heart rate sits around 180-182, which is about the theoretical maximum for my age, yet that seems to be my 5-10k "race pace" effort heart rate.
     
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  10. paulF

    paulF Well-Known Member

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    It does seem like you've got things under control @Propagate and sounds like a very good strategy that's working for you. When i prepped for my 21km a few years back, i followed a similar plan from memory.I still have the program somewhere, will try to find and post.

    I will take you up on the offer whenever i'm down that way! Last time i was holidaying their I ran from Rosebud to Dromana and back around the beach trail. It was a good 12-13 km run from memory. Loved the area and that Two bay trail looks awesome.

    I realized how little mileage I've been doing lately and even though i love my 3 times a week 20 minute 5km run after work, i think it's time to change things up a bit now that there is more daylight after work hours... I've been really enjoying Intervals and leg turnover is already improving after a few sessions but i think I've lost my stamina to keep the 4 km/minute pace for longer runs(10k and over). Easy(ish) long runs will help build that stamina back up so back to longer runs over the weekend moving forward!
     
  11. Propagate

    Propagate Well-Known Member

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    You'll love the Two Bay's trail @paulF but I can assure you, we won't be doing it at 4 minutes k's!! That's a flat out sprint for me :D

    A big push 5k might see a 4:30 and the rest 4:40-4:45 and I'm smashed after that. Low 5's for my solo long runs & solo trail runs mid 5's. Social trail run with my two buddies tends to be up over 6 minute k's but to be fair, one mate is not great on trail and there's usually plenty of photo stops.
     
  12. paulF

    paulF Well-Known Member

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    That's some very decent 5k numbers and you're not even training for that distance. We can't be good at everything at the end of the day.I doubt i'll be able to finish a 21km run these days to be honest even at a slower pace!

    Circumstances play a massive role in it. Few years back when i had the time to run properly, i was doing mid 17 minute 5kms but my usual run was a very hilly 10km at around 40-45 minute pace so i could fly through the 5km. I wasn't doing weight lifting or core at the time too so all my efforts where going towards running.

    These days, 3x5km runs a week with core and lifting workouts on the rest days work perfectly for my current circumstances so quiet happy with things but as said earlier, i miss the long trail runs and i feel like i need to put more effort back into longer runs ...

    Those social slow runs are really good for you though no matter how slow. They bring massive benefits to the body.
     
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  13. Propagate

    Propagate Well-Known Member

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    ...and to the mind. It's so nice to get away from everything with a mate or two for a few hours and head into the bush. Talk about rubbish, have a laugh, run around like kids and wind up a a coffee shop somewhere.

    I'd like to get my shorter distance speed up but it's too hard to train for speed and distance at the same timejust now. Adding a speed work day in just knocks too much out of me for the long runs, and distance is currently where my goals are.

    17+ minute 5k's are awesome mate. It used to boggle my mind that someone could run 10k none stop, never mind 20, 30, 50k... etc but I feel like that is now achievable as the training keeps progressing. 17 minute 5k's and sub 4 minute k long runs still seem mind boggling though. All great stuff, keeps you motivated knowing what's possible with enough time, effort and dedication!

    I've been reading about the Nike Breaking2 program where they are trying to break the 2 hour marathon barrier, unbelievable. I think one of the Kenyans pulled up so close at 2 hours 25 seconds or something? That's s decent bicycle cruising pace!
     
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  14. paulF

    paulF Well-Known Member

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    Yeah proper athletes times are mind boggling but these guys live and breath running and running only. I'ts amazing what the body can achieve through hard work and persistence.

    You are lucky to have mates that share the same passion for running as you. My entourage is the complete opposite lol Anything that has anything to do with exercise or being healthy and fit is frowned upon :D
     
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  15. Propagate

    Propagate Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, most of my mates here in Aus I met through riding. Being a new immigrant 10 years ago joining the local MTB club was great, became good mates with a few from that so straight away the whole friendship pool had one common exercise based pastime, they all still ride exclusively though whereas I've kind of lost the love for it a little this year.

    To be honest, I much prefer to do the long runs alone. Not sure why, I htink I like to go my own pace, whataver that may be, and get inside my head for a bit.

    Don't know where you are in Melbourne @paulF , but shout up if you ever fancy a social run I try and drag the two of them out every other weekend somewhere. We're all down in Somerville.
     
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  16. paulF

    paulF Well-Known Member

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    Thanks again for the invite @Propagate and will get in touch when i'm in that area. I'm located in the North, in Hadfield.

    Same here with the long runs. I think solo works better because they require a lot more concentration and plus , usually you are breaking your barriers with more mileage while at them so they require you really listen to your body while at it.

    Looking forward for my first longish run since while tomorrow!
     
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  17. Propagate

    Propagate Well-Known Member

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    Did you get a long run in at the weekend @paulF hope it was a good one.

    After a nice injury free stint I'm now on to my next issue. I've done something to my left knee in last weeks road run. Feels like a nerve type pain to the outside and over the top of the knee. It came on toward the end of last weeks road run, then was OK om Sundays trail run.

    It was OK yesterday for the first 10k or so until we popped out of the trail and onto road, it was fine whilst running but as soon as I stopped it came on. It would run off but come back any time you walk or stop. Pretty sore this morning too.

    A week off the running I reckon, maybe hot the bike then stick purely to trails again for a while. I think it was too much pavement last Saturday that's done it.

    As for the run itself, we had a blast. I caught up with a mate that live in the hills, we ran from Sassafras to Avonsleigh along an old, unused walking trail. It was pouring down but pushing 30c, felt like being in a tropical jungle! Was so much fun, lots of parts were so overgrown you could only just manage to get through. We were covered in leeches by the end, my legs are a mess of leach bite holes and blackberry scratches this morning. Felt like a proper adventure though. Happy Days.
     
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  18. Hodor

    Hodor Well-Known Member

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    Injury management is a big part of getting IMO, can't be consistent otherwise. I'm trying to be a bit smarter with my training and doing a little stretching, I know I have problems with a tight ITB on the right side especially, hasn't caused any major issues, get the feeling it wants to sometimes.

    Propagate it's amazing what you have achieved in such a short time especially with a few injury challenges! I went out and ran 5k at 90% type effort and couldn't break 25 minutes, hoping to by Xmas without having to completely go for broke. Should have a month now of fairly consistent running so fingers crossed I can improve by one minute.

    Started reading "Born to Run", only 30 pages in, seems like it will be a good read.
     
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  19. Propagate

    Propagate Well-Known Member

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    Thanks @Hodor I'm stoked with progress, just need to keep learning to listen to the body a bit more.

    Born to Run is a great read, once you've finished that I highly recommend his second book, Natural Born Heroes. Even better than Born to Run in my opinion, especially if you like a bit of history. The back story is fascinating (and true).
     
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  20. paulF

    paulF Well-Known Member

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    @Propagate , that sounds like an ITB (IT band) issue. the usual RICE would do but as you said, most importantly to get back on soft surfaces.

    I did just over a 10 km and it was awesome. I ran my usual course twice and stopped midway for around 5 minutes to put some fans on inside the house...

    Conditions were hard, 30 degrees around 2 o'clock in the arvo and having extra hot Pork Belly and a ton of Beer the night before made things a bit harder too lol
    I was very surprised at the end of it as it felt like i can rest another five minutes and then finish another 5km. Good effort but i really need to work on my easy pace rhythm especially at the beginning of the runs.

    @Hodor, that's a great 5KM time, well done. Stretching (and running on soft surfaces) fixed my troublesome right shin. Lately after every run, I've been getting into the Seiza position and it feels great doing so. Still uncomfortable after a few weeks easing into it but getting better. Brilliant stretch
     
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