Crypto The problem with crypto investing

Discussion in 'Other Asset Classes' started by charttv, 26th Feb, 2021.

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  1. Michael.Knight

    Michael.Knight Well-Known Member

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    How exactly is bitcoin an ecological catastrophe?

    The electricity required from mining is the proof of work needed to give the network value from the physical world to the digital one. It gives the network security and value in place of a 3rd party.

    Now for comparisons sake lets look at other networks and their environmental demands, such as the credit card banking system.

    To secure the visa and mastercard network think about all the plastic cards that need to be manufactured and mailed. Then think about all the electricity the physical banks, servers, POS units and ATMS need to secure the network.

    The Bitcoin vs Visa Electricity Consumption Fallacy

    This article mentions 100Twh of electricity for banks/visa/mastercard vs 30Twh of electricity for bitcoin. And that's using conservative figures from 2017. Not as much of an environmental disaster as you'd think.
     
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  2. charttv

    charttv Well-Known Member

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    the bitcoin blockchain has a single use - validating transactions on the bitcoin blockchain
    the banking system has more than a single use - it does cash deposits, personal loans, mortgages, car loans, currency transactions, cash dispensation, etc, etc but hey, keep pumping out all the coiner arguments, heard them all before
    shall we continue?
     
  3. charttv

    charttv Well-Known Member

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    also, as you are probably aware, the use cases for bitcoin are:

    hodling in the hope you can unload on greater fools for fiat; or
    money laundering; or
    paying for kiddie pr0n

    fantastic use of resources there

    this is why the "but blah blah accepts Bitcoin" is irrelevant. nobody actually pays for anything with it and if they do, it is immediately converted into fiat anyway
     
  4. charttv

    charttv Well-Known Member

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    okay, at some point, the coiners are gonna come out with the
    "so why don't you short it, then?" argument

    the folly with this argument is that assumes i haven't and because crypto is highly manipulated market. counter-party risk is a massive issue that will only be resolved by regulation which means enforecable AML and KYC amongst other things.

    funny how Coinbase/Binance etc tend to have "technical difficulties" during massive down swings. no cash out for you

    then the coiners counter with "but stocks are manipulated too" which is partly true, particularly in the speculative end of town. This is why i no longer trade speculative stocks. However, it is much, much worse in crypto. reeks with fraud and scamming. At least exchanges like the ASX have rules and there is some recourse through them and ASIC when manipulation and fraud occurs, no such thing with crypto
     
  5. charttv

    charttv Well-Known Member

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    also, that article is from 2017, energy consumption has gone way up since them but feel free to selectively present out dated facts that reinforce your world view. i am waiting
     
  6. Michael.Knight

    Michael.Knight Well-Known Member

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    Well sounds to me like you have a chip on your shoulder and are worried now that bitcoin is at a $1 trillion marketcap. It's ok. We always fear what we don't understand.

    Sure, alot of 'ifs' and 'buts' presented there. They also said back in the 1990s that the internet was only good for drugs and porn. Email was useless because we already had mail. It was slow to load pages, modems stopped us from using our phones, computers caused fires etc. What was it good for?

    The future of bitcoin, network effects and exponential growth are beyond our mind's understanding. We probably haven't even fully realised it's potential.

    All I know is that bitcoin is still around and growing every day even after 10+ years of worries and pessimism.
     
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  7. charttv

    charttv Well-Known Member

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    typical coiner copy/paste response

    market cap is irrelevant, see earlier post

    the ol' crypto is just like the early internet - debunked! Debunking “But Bitcoin is like the early Internet!”

    never heard the "you can't possibly understand it's potential" claptrap before either. We didn't understand the potential of COVID-19 when we first heard about it, either

    please continue
     
  8. charttv

    charttv Well-Known Member

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    also, my point earlier regarding Willybot was that it is on record that the price is manipulated. It is relevant. Nothing has changed, crypto is rife with front running and wash trading, unbacked stable coin printing, etc... Willybot was just one example of how this fraudulent ecosystem operates
     
  9. charttv

    charttv Well-Known Member

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    i should add that i don't think bitcoin will ever disappear. i think it will be around for a very long time. there will always be those hardcore crypto-anarchist true believers who will be trading coins IRL and attempting to mine at home. I wish it stayed that way, as a fringe element tech oddity. I do not like what it has become. It is a failure and i am genuinely sad about this.
     
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  10. charttv

    charttv Well-Known Member

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  11. Perthguy

    Perthguy Well-Known Member

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    Screw crypto. GME is where it's at. To the moon! ;)
     
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  12. charttv

    charttv Well-Known Member

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    another great resource. coiners hate Nouriel for some reason. i believe Arthur is facing many charges and is on the run.
     
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  13. Danieljk101

    Danieljk101 Well-Known Member

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    This seems like the incoherent ramblings of a mad man... we get it, you knew about bitcoin at $1 and now it’s 50k+. Must be hard to deal with.
     
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  14. charttv

    charttv Well-Known Member

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    yeah, you got me. driven wild with FOMO because greed is my only motivator
    coiners only tend to see things from their point-of-view

    btw, i am actually bullish in the near term on Bitcoin, i think the price will continue to rise. What irks me is why it is rising and what happens when the music stops
     
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  15. charttv

    charttv Well-Known Member

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    have you been sitting on the fence on this stuff? Note the condescending tones of the true believers. This is all fine and proper behaviour in crypto-cult land btw.

    The abuse, dismissiveness and cynicism in this forum is nothing compared to other parts of the internet. Fine bunch of people
     
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  16. Rex

    Rex Well-Known Member

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    Of all the big financial bubbles in history, the crypto bubble will be the most bizarre and baffling to future generations.

    A myriad (and theoretically unlimited number) of unregulated made up currencies with no intrinsic value that are wildly volatile and aren't actually used for transactions but for illegal activities. And the global network can only handle like 5 transactions per second anyway.

    At least tulips had some small utility and intrinsic value.

    EDIT: don't get me wrong, the crypto bubble may go on for many more years, there is probably lots of money to be made in the short or medium term but ultimately there is literally nothing but speculation underpinning it and it will burst at some point.
     
    Last edited: 26th Feb, 2021
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  17. paulF

    paulF Well-Known Member

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    The way i understood Crypto assets years ago is that it's about decentralization, no more no less. And it's not just about currency , it can be about digital assets (FileCoin) or any other software application.

    They allow you to do something you can already do today like paying someone but without a trusted central party like a bank or paypal for example (from a financial perspective).

    So simply put, it's centralized vs decentralized software:
    Paypal vs Bitcoin
    Filecoin vs Google drive
    Ethereum vs Amazon AWS

    With Bitcoin, I never understood the value part of it other than the fact that it provides anonymity to pay anyone.
    As for the price of bitcoin, it's simply the network's transaction fee. In this case, it's the price that someone is willing to pay for anonymity of transactions or maybe the speculation that this is how much someone is willing to pay in the future for such anonymity.

    I'm not invested in anything Crypto but as a software developer, i tried to get my head a round it as i thought the idea is interesting(as in decentralized software).
    Hope the above makes any sense.
     
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  18. Piston_Broke

    Piston_Broke Well-Known Member

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    Bitmex was a scam. I traded there for 5 days and got out immediately.
    The whole crypto became a boon for scammers while the scammed loved the "annonimity", which makes scamming easy.
    Many many billions.

    Great video. I was saying the same as Roubini many years ago.

    FTR once I did my research on Buffet I don't like him either.
     
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  19. charttv

    charttv Well-Known Member

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    really should add laser eyes to my profile pic. that way i can really show everyone i am a free thinker and not one of those fiat-loving, centralised sheeples
     
  20. charttv

    charttv Well-Known Member

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