The nuclear sub deal

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Scott No Mates, 18th Sep, 2021.

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  1. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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    Although not "pro" pro - I'm not against this idea as the best of the options. Leasing - or simply allowing the US to have a base from which to operate their fleet.

    Means we're not investing massive amounts of money in something that may be defunct/obsolete by the time they hit the water - ties the US to actually coming to our aid if required (they're not renowned for having the backs of their allies) - and if they are no longer required then we simply end the lease
     
    Last edited: 20th Sep, 2021
  2. Gen-Y

    Gen-Y Well-Known Member

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    If it flies, floats or ****s, don't buy it. Rent it. That's the FFF Rule.
     
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  3. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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    One does have to wonder, with the speed this was rammed, and with no consultation within government itself ... what intelligence had the US received about what, with China and the region? ... that they felt the need to make a stance
     
  4. skater

    skater Well-Known Member

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    Sheesh, we are no better, with what we did to our own people.

    British nuclear tests at Maralinga - Wikipedia

    There's a netflix series about this. Operation Buffalo (TV series) - Wikipedia

    The truth is worse that what is seen in the series.
     
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  5. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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    ... are you sure this page isn't monitored!

    What is not being revealed behind the reason for urgency? Military build up near Taiwan - loss of sovereignty of HK - military occupation of disputed islands?

    AUKUS: Australia to lease submarines to fill security gap

    Australia plans to lease and share existing nuclear-powered submarines years before acquisition, narrowing a risk the American or British subs arrive too late to counter China’s rapid military expansion in the Indo-Pacific.
     
  6. Redwing

    Redwing Well-Known Member

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    Agreed

    The Montebello Islands remain a nuclear radiation risk more than half a century after British bomb tests in the area

    Test sites
    • Monte Bello Islands
    • Maralinga
    • Emu Field

    Interesting read here

    Australian Map of Nuclear and Uranium Sites | Map of Australia

    Austrralian Nuclear & Radiation Sites.JPG
     
  7. JDP1

    JDP1 Well-Known Member

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    Yep. There is a lot more to this story behind the scenes...we may never know.
     
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  8. boganfromlogan

    boganfromlogan Well-Known Member

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    There is also a lot more to the French deal, including how bad the outcomes from it were going to be.

    So not only will we get suitable assets, but have scrapped a terrible French option.

    U can't just lease equipment like subs, they are integrated as a strategic asset, and have to be relied upon. We already outsource a fair bit via agreement, but these assets need to be totally within control in order for them to defend aus interests.

    This is a net good thing!

    Good for Adelaide the nuclear state!!
     
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  9. shorty

    shorty Well-Known Member

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    Yep, just another 'announcement' at this stage. We've publicly committed to purchasing nuclear subs before even commencing contract negotiations. Outstanding.

    We should have gone with the Japanese Soryu subs (now available with a lithium battery) but the Turnbull government wanted to pork barrel south Australia. The Japanese subs were heaps cheaper, ready to deploy much sooner and fit for what we need now. Instead we asked the French to butcher their nuclear subs for us and make them conventional, and surprise - the project was delayed and costs blew out.

    We might end up with nuclear subs in another 20 years if we're lucky, but we still need a stop gap and they'll likely be obsolete by the time we get them due to autonomous sub hunting drones.
     
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  10. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Well-Known Member

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  11. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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  12. Gen-Y

    Gen-Y Well-Known Member

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    Yup that was what I was saying about the big white elephant.
    Swimming naked and getting molested by Biden and we went there willingly.
    Our politician make the worst possible decision. What a bunch of amateurs!
    Worst part we have ASPI who commission a report about our defenses.
    If you look at who sponsors these clowns - it is the arms dealers of the USA.
    FML - talk about eating turds of the USA. :eek:
     
  13. skater

    skater Well-Known Member

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    When you scrolled in to see this, did you also notice that if you look inland we have Pennsylvania, Norway, Woodstock and Wimbledon. Bound to be more, but that gave me a good belly laugh.:D
     
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  14. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Well-Known Member

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    That's only to confuse those who think Australia is the next nuclear superpower having built all of these facilities over the last 50+ years without being noticed by the rest of the world due to our anti-nuclear stance. :oops:
     
  15. Redwing

    Redwing Well-Known Member

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    They've found a few of these over the years

    upload_2021-9-21_7-51-47.png
     
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  16. Baker

    Baker Well-Known Member

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    Good movie - though you already know how it ends.

    Kursk: The Last Mission
     
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  17. boganfromlogan

    boganfromlogan Well-Known Member

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    We did this with aircraft also.

    One important factor is the systems on board, the ability to integrate with allies and the critical mass needed to make these things a reality.

    It is like a family getting together and buying a farm for everyone in the family, sure it's expensive for Junior, and Grandpa managed to subsidise the dream BUT .....

    we are all in it together ........ (aren't we?).
     
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  18. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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  19. boganfromlogan

    boganfromlogan Well-Known Member

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    Don't ex PM'S go quietly in Aus. Turn bull defending the French!!

    Interesting that he's not totally dissing the new subs, just says we shouldn't have annoyed the French.
     
  20. Piston_Broke

    Piston_Broke Well-Known Member

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    Jusy posturing.
    The AUS/USA relationship has not changed, maybe a little more formalized.
    The US is just deploying proetirction for its Aus based assets of which there are a few.

    Don't forget both the Australian and Sweedish "diesel" subs passed through the US navy.
    And nucleaer subs are much more detectable these days too.

    Future warfare will not be about huge nuclear subs or ships, they are already obsolete.
    Lots of new tech out there.
    Even though the US is still using high altitude planes to track subs.
     
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