The Myths of Liberal Economic Management

Discussion in 'Politics' started by LibGS, 11th May, 2019.

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  1. LibGS

    LibGS Well-Known Member

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    Top ten Budget deceptions, brought to you by Treasurer Josh Frydenberg

    1. The Budget is back in the black
    2. Australia is stronger than it was when we came to Government six years ago — growth is higher
    3. Unemployment is lower
    4. We are reducing the debt and this interest bill
    5. Only one side of politics can do this [eliminate Commonwealth net debt] because only one side of politics has done this; John Howard and Peter Costello paid off Labor's debt
    6. Following these changes, our tax system will remain highly progressive
    7. Under the Morrison Government, tax as a share of the economy will not rise above the 23.9% cap ... taxes will always be lower under the Coalition
    8. Additional tax relief for small and medium-sized businesses ... the engine-room of our economy
    9. This Government has been at the forefront of global efforts to crack down on multinational tax avoidance
    10. Six years ago when we came to Government, the economy was weakening ... Since then, we have made the right choices ... and our economic plan is working

    Number 10 is amazing, deteriorations since 2013 in OECD rankings include:
    • the rate of annual wage rises, down from seventh to 21st;
    • gross national savings, down from ninth to 19th;
    • gini coefficient (equality of wealth distribution), down from 12th to 29th;
    • budget deficit as a percentage of GDP, down from ninth to 25th; and
    • growth in the volume of exports of goods and services, down from fourth to 18th.
     
  2. TSK

    TSK Well-Known Member

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    I'll have a read over them but to be honest, there are a lot of variables and I don't envy the ALP if global economy goes over the cliff. If it does, I suspect they will be best able to manage it.
     
  3. Hamish Blair

    Hamish Blair Well-Known Member

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    ATO Tax Stats for 2016-17:

    If we rank our 100 people by their taxable incomes:

    • people with the top three taxable incomes paid 30% of all net tax
    • the next six paid 18% of all net tax
    • the next 30 paid 40% of all net tax
    • the next 36 paid 12% of all net tax
    • the last 25 didn't pay any tax.
     
  4. kierank

    kierank Well-Known Member

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    In other words, these 91 people (52%):
    basically paid the same tax as these nine (48%):

    Will BS and the ALP make this fairer, as per their slogan?

    Don’t think do!!!!
     
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  5. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps you need to work out the average income of the 9 versus the 91 ... and then see if it's fair.

    Australia's household income and wealth distribution - McCrindle
    Australian Income Distribution - Compare your income

    I was reminded today, of a famous and poignant quote in this age of personal greed ... "do not think what can your country do for you, but what you can do for your country"
     
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  6. ttn

    ttn Well-Known Member

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    Not sure if true or not but with good accountants you can bring "taxable income" to really low from very high gross income :D and it's all legitimately according to tax laws
     
  7. paulF

    paulF Well-Known Member

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    I'm all for doing something for my country but at the same time something has to give especially when so many are rorting the system.
    It feels like high income earners(generally hard workers and people who sacrifice a lot) are being punished for trying to have a go.
     
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  8. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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    I agree there is a lot of rorting going on - mainly from those at the top (ie, pollies) ... don't necessarily agree those who are at the bottom of the heap aren't working hard. I suspect a lot at the bottom didn't have the same opportunities - whether that be upbringing or mentors or place of birth or mental ability/health or parental support - as those at the top.

    Imagine working 6 days a week stacking shelves in Bunnings, only to have to take on a second job cleaning houses - while the partner drives a garbage truck and mows lawns - just to pay the mortgage and keep food on the table. They don't work any less hard - simply differently.

    It's interesting watching the program "My Year 12 Life" - and the heart breaking emotional and physical struggles of those living in poorer homes with split/abusive parenting ... compared to those who come from a wealthy, supportive parent background where the greatest crisis is forgetting to charge the phone.

    No one (unless mentally ill) chooses to live in poverty.
     
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  9. kierank

    kierank Well-Known Member

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    I don’t know how to do that!!

    Can you work it out for me?

    As I have posted before, I value my time more than my money.

    Hence, I would rather give my time (that is, do volunteer work) than give up my money.

    Far more valuable for my country.
     
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  10. paulF

    paulF Well-Known Member

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    Not arguing against any of the above and completely understand and this is coming from someone who was living below the poverty line for a very long time ...

    How is it anyone's fault that they got better opportunities or got lucky ? What i'm arguing against is the idea that just because someone is making more money than someone else for whatever reason, It's ok for the person making more money to be burdened with an unreasonable part of the tax share.
    Not arguing that richer people shouldn't pay more tax , but what i'm saying is anything more than 30c per the dollar is too much for any individual.
     
  11. Chicken or Beef?

    Chicken or Beef? Well-Known Member

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    A lot of people choose to not improve their life.

    I worked with someone once earning 2k clean a week and he lived in an Absco garden shed at the back of his sisters rented house because he blew his whole pay on the pokies every week.
     
  12. LibGS

    LibGS Well-Known Member

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    But is that what the target of your generosity wants? Your money might indeed be more valuable than your time to them. Maybe you could instead spend your time making more money and then hiring more people to go in your place. Hence an even bigger "donation".
     
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  13. kierank

    kierank Well-Known Member

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    It certainly is and I have Certificates of Appreciation to prove it.

    Every organisation I have ever volunteered for are all continuously looking for more volunteers.

    The latest volunteering job I am applying for (a 12 months assignment) is to assist older women who are struggling financially to start and grow their micro-enterprises.

    Yep, my time is greatly appreciated.

    No way.

    As the old sayings goes:

    “Give a person a fish and you feed them for a day; teach a person to fish and you feed them for a lifetime.”​

    My time is far more precious than money.

    I am too old to continue taking those sorts of risks, especially under an ALP Government.

    During my working life, I worked 12+ hours per day, 7 days per week (including Christmas Day).

    Life is too short for me to keep doing that.
     
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  14. Sackie

    Sackie Well-Known Member

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    @kierank what they ( BS et al and BS taxing) really want is your time, money and soul. Only then when you are as poor and as hopeless as the next person will they leave you alone and move on to the next wealthy victim.

    **** em. Enough is enough. Stand your ground and do what is absolutely best for you and your family.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 13th May, 2019
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  15. kierank

    kierank Well-Known Member

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    Governments have been trying to do this to me for over 40 years including our “best” Treasurers (Keating, Swan, ...) :eek:.

    One thing I have done many times over the years is:

    When they change the rules, I change my game ;).​

    This has been one of my guiding principles for over 40 years and it has worked very well :D.

    Not going to change now. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it ;).
     
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  16. geoffw

    geoffw Moderator Staff Member

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    We've had 27 years of economic growth, through several switches of government. That included growth when the rest of the world was feeling from the GFC. This implies that both sides of the fence have a record of some sort of competence in economic management.
     
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  17. scienceman

    scienceman Well-Known Member

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    But remember both sides have been running mass immigration for the past 15 years or so. This accounting trick makes it very hard to have a recession in the technical sense. Per capita is a different story - actually we are in per capita recession now.