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The Lord's Prayer in Parliament - what the hell?

Discussion in 'Living Room' started by jaybean, 28th Feb, 2016.

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  1. jaybean

    jaybean Well-Known Member

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    I'm not a very political person so I don't often pay attention to it. But today I had nothing better to do so I sat down to watch a session of parliament and it began with a reading of the Lord's Prayer. I thought we were supposed to be a secular country? I used to think it was just the Americans who had "in God we trust" and all that stuff infused in their politics but I had no idea it was a problem here too.
     
  2. Xenia

    Xenia Adelaide Property Manager Business Member

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    I don't like it.
    Tribunal hearings start with choosing either a Christian bible or affirmation.

    I once asked to swear on a cat God and they threw me the affirmation lol
     
  3. Chilliblue

    Chilliblue Well-Known Member

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    Constitutionally Australia is a religious country (like many other Western democracies) and our legal system and our institutions whilst generally secular in nature I believe draw heavily on Christian ethics and morality. It was customary for a great period of time for those involved in trials to swear on the Bible.

    That is why all parliaments (State and Federal) around Australia begin with the Lord’s Prayer and the Australian Constitution’s preamble includes the words 'Humbly relying on the blessing of Almighty God'.
     
    Last edited: 28th Feb, 2016
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  4. jaybean

    jaybean Well-Known Member

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    All cultural rituals, no matter how seemingly obscure, begin for very good reasons. Many of them also outlive their usefulness.
     
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  5. Peter_Tersteeg

    Peter_Tersteeg Finance broker and strategist Business Member

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    It was only a few decades ago that there was a debate about swearing on the bible vs other religious texts when making a statement in court.

    For that matter, why do they wear those stupid wigs in courtrooms?

    Our legal and political system is full of rituals which are loosing relevance and we're slowly introducing customer into our culture that are gaining relevance. These things don't move quickly.

    For the most part it's fairly harmless.
     
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  6. Terry_w

    Terry_w Solicitor, Finance Broker, CTA Business Member

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    Tje wig and gown of judges and barristers is supposed to disguise the wearers slightly so that it is not as easy to recognise them outsode of court and to also separate them from the rest of the people in the courtroom.

    It also gives a different feel. Compare tv shows showing american courtrooms to english. Dont they feel different ?
     
  7. Nemo30

    Nemo30 Well-Known Member

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    I'm a massive atheist - I hate religion.

    But I don't mind this as it is part of our history and culture.

    It really annoys me when people talk about Australia as a multicultural country, without pausing to reflect on the existing culture - both indigenous and non-indigenous.

    Non indigenous Australia does have a Christian history. Our public holidays are based on Christian holidays.. We swear on the bible (although there is a choice) and we say a prayer in parliament.
     
  8. Peter_Tersteeg

    Peter_Tersteeg Finance broker and strategist Business Member

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    I agree it makes them feel different. The interpretation of different is probably available to debate, but barristers are better trailed in debate than most of us mere mortals.

    I have a pair of novelty glasses with a plastic nose and mustache for when I need a disguise. :cool:
     
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  9. datto

    datto Well-Known Member

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    As an altar boy I used to recite the Pater Noster quite regularly until I was expelled for getting stuck into the sacramental wine too often.

    It is the Australian way. Although these days I wouldn't hurt to be able to recite a few verses of other religious text, just to get you out of trouble when traveling around the globe.
     
  10. The Y-man

    The Y-man Moderator Staff Member

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    "Our Prime Minister who art in Parliament, Hallowed by Thy Name...."
    just doesn't have the same ring to me IMHO......

    The Y-man
     
  11. Chilliblue

    Chilliblue Well-Known Member

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    Most government locations such as parliament, schools etc have a Welcome to Country as acknowledgment for indigenous Australians
     
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  12. Nemo30

    Nemo30 Well-Known Member

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    I think we should celebrate our indigenous culture more.
    I'm all for welcoming new cultures, but I don't want to lose our identity in the process.
     
  13. LibGS

    LibGS Well-Known Member

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    Queen Mary died in 1694, isn't it about time they got over it :)
     
    Last edited: 29th Feb, 2016
  14. Tim & Chrissy

    Tim & Chrissy Well-Known Member

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    I think we should hang onto as much formality and tradition as possible, it's something we seem to be too willing to give up/water down and as a result important parts of our culture are forgotten and lost.

    We recently did the Sydney harbour bridge climb and came to realistion we know practically nothing about the history of our city.
     
  15. hammer

    hammer Well-Known Member

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    I think up here in the NT they mix it up. I believe a Chinese dragon opened parliament this year.

    Not 100 percent sure though. Will check.
     
  16. geoffw

    geoffw Moderator Staff Member

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    While we have continued traditions from the old country, there has also been a conscious effort to create our own traditions.

    The traditions we follow on Anzac Day didn't just happen. There were endless committee meetings specifically for the purpose of creating traditions suitable for a new country without traditions of its own. The reveille and last post, reading of the "We will remember them", the minute's silence and others are some of the things we observe as a result of decisions of those committees.
     
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  17. Tim86

    Tim86 Well-Known Member

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    I'm just thankful that we have a culture that is based on morals taught by the christian god.

    Like how in 2nd Kings when a group of kids call a prophet a "bald head" so god sends a bear to murder all the kids.

    Or how god judges king David for killing a woman's husband and then raping her and making her pregnant. God punishes David in a very moral way... morals that our society still practices today. I hardly have to say the punishment do I?

    Of course the moral consequence is to kill the baby. Yep kill the baby. If someone kills your husband and rapes you, then the moral thing to do is to have someone come along and murder your baby.

    I'm just so thankful that our society still practices the moral code of the christian god. Where would we be without basing our lives on it? Heck when would we know when to kill babies and small children? I'd just be walking down the street always wondering to myself "is now the right time to kill some kids?". But thanks to the bible I know when I need to murder children.
     
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  18. kamchatsky

    kamchatsky Well-Known Member

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    I see that you take a very small part of the bible and just quote it and just make it as a statement about God as a whole.

    Maybe it is worth for you to read the whole Bible in full context. Or if it is too much to read, just read the New Testament alone.

    Not everyone would agree to God and His Ways, but I believe everything should be read in context. Even that, people will interpret it differently.
     
  19. kamchatsky

    kamchatsky Well-Known Member

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    I guess if enough Australians are against Christianity, and its influence in the Government, then they can always petition to the parliament to get rid of Christmas and Easter Holidays. It would be meaningless to them anyway and they should be normal business day to improve the economy and GDP.

    Let's see if they are willing to do this.
     
  20. Tim86

    Tim86 Well-Known Member

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    Ive read the bible fully about 4 times and new testament probably ten times. And studied it at bible college. (Was raised Christian until I saw the light and became an atheist).

    Im wondering, in what context is it okay to murder children? Seriously I would love an answer to that one.

    The context is clear. There was a prophet. I think it was either elijah or elisha. He was leaving a town that he was preaching in. He got called a "bald head" by a group of kids. I think it was 52 kids from memory. So the bible says that god sent a she bear to kill the children.

    Thats the context. No more. No less.

    As for my king david example, full context is there to. Nothing hidden.

    I can give other examples too. Like how if a man thinks his wife is cheating on him he should get the preist to make up a portion of barley dust and water. And if her stomach swells then she is guilty of adultery. And we all know what the bible says should happen to women who do that. And if anyone doesnt already know, barley always bloats the stomach. So its pretty much a case of: suspect your wife is committing adultery, then tell the preist and he will give you permission to "punish" her.

    The bible is messed up. That particular messed up example was given by a scholar at bible college who could read the bible in its original languages and had over a decades worth of degrees in bible study. He simply said to all the students "there are things in the bible like this...and youve just got to make your own peace with it".

    Some people can close their eyes and block their ears and go lalalalala. But I wasnt the only one that got a rude awakening when I started properly studying the bible and decided to leave bible college. I remember one guy in class just saying "but...but... how can that be...how can we follow this book if it teaches things like this". He was a christian for years and studying to become a preacher. He wasnt there the next day and never came back again.
     
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