The Best News and a New Era - Denuclearization, North/South Korea

Discussion in 'Politics' started by MTR, 30th Apr, 2018.

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  1. turk

    turk Well-Known Member

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    It's 65 years since the ceasefire in Korea, what have the prior Presidents achieved in that time?
     
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  2. Alain

    Alain Well-Known Member

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    Getting a bit heated here, cautious optimism is the way to go


    North Korea has been an unpredictable enemy that has overtly and covertly stirred up trouble for nearly 70 years so an extreme degree of caution and wariness is advised in any dealings with them. I am sure Trump, Pompeo, Bolton and South Korea are aware of this fact.
    Hopefully Kims willingness to meet face to face with an American president for the first time, and outside of his own country is something of a tell.

    Kudos to both South Korea and Washington for getting it so far, let's hope they can keep the momentum going and pull it off.

    As for the reason the Iran deal is bad is not because Iran has broken any agreement, they have in fact kept up their part of the bargain, the reason it's bad is because it still allows them to develop nuclear weapons via other pathways.
    Iran can still develop ballistic weapons (which are kind of useless unless they are nuclear capable) they can still do R&D on Centrifuges, Military sites are off limits from Inspectors and after 10 years Iran can start enriching Uranium.
     
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  3. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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    OMG - REALLY! But it was so trashy and cheap and dumbed down ... "two leaders ... one destiny" ... I couldn't watch much more for fear of killing off too many braincells
     
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  4. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely with you on this on all points
     
  5. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for the reality check

    That was my point, different approach has worked, kudos or should I say Nobel prize

    We want this to work regardless who gets the credit.
     
    Last edited: 13th Jun, 2018
  6. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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    Not hard to google - trying not to find a biased website is harder ...

    How past presidents dealt with North Korea
     
  7. turk

    turk Well-Known Member

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    I've read how past Presidents have dealt with North Korea and as pointed out in this article they achieved absolutely nothing.

    Trump may also fail but that is not an excuse not to try.
     
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  8. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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    Past presidents have tried - but failed. Sometimes this was due to their hard line - sometimes this was due to taking a softer line but NK taking what they were offered and then reneging on their side of the bargin.

    I hope this time the diplomats behind the scenes succeed - but to make statements that "no past president has achieved anything" is rather naive and general.

    Interesting the demand that the USA stop military exercises on the Korean peninsula is something that both China and Russia have also been demanding ... and has been granted with nothing in return ... making SK and Japan very nervous.

    Also the demand by NK that the entire Korean peninsula as a whole denuclearize ... what exactly does that mean? Maybe I'm reading to much between the lines - but between the lines seems to be where NK has previously taken their lead from
     
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  9. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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    Not privy to the fine print:)

    ...but this morning Prez said its a process.... it will evolve.... one step at a time. To get to this place today is certainly a big deal.

    Looking forward to how this evolves, cant take the smile from my face..... lets enjoy the moment, who would have thought

    MTR:)
     
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  10. geoffw

    geoffw Moderator Staff Member

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    Peace in our time.

    Screenshot_20180613-172905~2.png

    Chamberlain in 1938...

    While I'm optimistic, I think it's far too early to be celebrating yet.
     
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  11. turk

    turk Well-Known Member

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    I never made that statement, you are misquoting me, in my first post the question I asked was,

    'It's 65 years since the ceasefire in Korea, what have the prior Presidents achieved in that time?'


    to which you replied that it's not hard to google and put this link in
    How past presidents dealt with North Korea

    I pointed out that this article had no information on what they had achieved only that they had failed at these efforts.

    I never made a reference that "no past president has achieved anything".
     
    Last edited: 13th Jun, 2018
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  12. GentleChief

    GentleChief Well-Known Member

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    Love him or hate him,
    Trump has pulled this one -
    It has a significant positive place in history, at least during our lifetimes.
     
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  13. geoffw

    geoffw Moderator Staff Member

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    I was surprised that Tony Abbott was sceptical. The US has stopped their war games (I guess easily verifiable), NK has only promised to work towards nuclear disarmament. That's only a vague promise, not easily verifiable. It's far too early yet to say that anything has been achieved. There is the appearance that the US has been played.
     
  14. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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    Its amazing the summit actually went ahead and documents signed.

    Now its sit back and watch, time will tell, just to get to this point is a big deal
     
  15. Greyghost

    Greyghost Well-Known Member

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    Do all of you actually believe there is substance behind all of the grandstanding and media coverage?
    There was no issue to begin with.
    There was no issue solved.
    Trump is a puppet like every other president.

    Strange how NK was the biggest threat to the world. Then US signed their biggest defence spending budget ever. Nek minute, NK is no longer a threat.
    It's all about manipulation of the public to agree with agendas of the elite.
    Afghan Iraq Syria conflicts winding down.
    Why do they need an increased war budget?
    Why because think of all the companies that make items for the military, from socks to jet fuel to forks. These are all companies why survive on the tit of war. So without conflict billions if not trillions of dollars will be wiped out of the economy. Who owns or has stakes in these companies? The ones who fund the parties...
    it's all one big boys club.

    Do some reading on the 'petrodollar' (Saudis agreeing to price oil against US dollar instead of gold) - biggest boys club deal on history.

    All this talk of trump and NK in here like royal family gossip.. I'm not a conspiracy geek but you guys need to see the bigger picture at play here.. not what the news is reporting...
     
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  16. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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    I like this, very stylish

    [​IMG]
     
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  17. Alain

    Alain Well-Known Member

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    Allot of people are jumping the Gun here, I also respectfully disagree with the statement that USA and South Korea have been played, the USA and South Korea have dealt with North Korea for 70 years and would have known full well of all the previous dealings, back room deals etc.. that have been made with North Korea and previous administrators and Governments

    I also disagree with any comment that previous Administrations and Governments got played by North Korea in the past, previous administrations would have also known full well of the potential dangers dealing with North Korea, sometimes politicians do the right thing and have eggs thrown at them and look like fools if it means you can help provide some relief to a starving and tortured population.

    We shouldn't play down or discredit what has happened here, this was a dangerous and dramatic move by the US and South Korea to agree to visit a North Korean Dictator in Singapore.

    Here are the possible scenarios that could eventuate from this meeting:

    1) Both sides agree to a long-term process for curbs to North Korea’s nuclear program - Good news for everyone
    2) A Propaganda win for Kim - Bad news for the People of North Korea as they will continue to lead miserable lives, Also bad news for the US as it makes them look dumb. Basically the same thing that has been happening for the past 70 years. Threats, escalations,cooling off and starting again
    3) War - The US could use this as justification to go to war and make North Korea Denuclearize by force.

    This thread needs to be locked and revisited after a year, then you can all argue if it was a success or not.
     
  18. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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    Agree with Alain - we all need to just wait and see what happens. There is a lot of speculation going on by "experts".

    Reports out of NK make no mention of nuclear disarmament - and focused instead on the propoganda of KJU parading on the "world stage". There was a great discussion on ABC 24 last night regarding the NK manipulation in the lead up, and what is happening in that country now ... but only time will tell.

    I hope the end result is positive, but not parading optimism just yet - and do take into consideration what Greyghost has talked about. The military in the USA is massive, their biggest single industry. If there is no wars then the industry falters - is it to big to let fail?

    Time to log off - get on with life as we know it - and revisit when more factual information is available (not self publicity, congratulatory back patting or speculation)
     
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  19. Phase2

    Phase2 Well-Known Member

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    You make a good point, but what I like about Trump is that he'll have no problem changing his mind and taking that military spending away next year if he pulls off the NK deal.. Interesting times indeed.
     
  20. Alain

    Alain Well-Known Member

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    North Korea wasn't a threat to the world, they were a threat to their neighbours.,South Korea and Japan. The US has an alliance and Duty to protect them.

    While the US spends the most on it's Military it only spends about 3.5% - 5% of its GDP (Depending on the source) on Military Expenditure which is still a huge amount due to having the highest GDP in the world.

    Again depending on source and at the risk of starting another **** fight the US spends about 16% - 37% of their budget towards the Military.
    In 2015 The US spent more on Healthcare 25% and Social security 24% than they did on the Military.
    While a Juggernaut it's not the Juggernaut that you think, the US can carry on with or without Conflict
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 14th Jun, 2018
  21. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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    There is No need to close the thread

    Work in progress, discussion, opinions are good