VIC Tenants having surveillance equipment

Few questions if anyone knows;

1. If a tenant has a video and audio surveillance in the rental property, can I demand it will be shut off while I'm conducting a lawful 6 months inspection.
   The digital act seems very confusing and very permissive, and I can't find the right of a person who is lawfully attending a private property to refuse being recorded.
   
   I understand they are within their right to run it normally, but I wonder what is the LL/agent legal position while conducting inspecting.
   
   Clearly, they have extended right to roam, check, open the oven, take pictures which would normally consider violation of privacy, but are allowed during this special occasion.
2. If the tenants have an outside surveillance, can they be forced to not include any private that is outside of the area they lease?
   Again, I'm struggling to find the proper act regrading surveillance that include other private property (such as neighbour's back yard or something).

 

1. Probably not.
2. Again, probably not.

Why do you care about it being shut off during an inspection? I can't see that I ever would.

 

would you want it turned off , or demand an accurate copy on the visit ??

as long as aware you MIGHT be recorded on audio , wouldn't you control what you say , just in case only certain parts of the system are shut down ??

if you think the surveillance might aggravate the neighbours maybe you can ask the neighbours how they feel , they MIGHT have better legal standing if they feel offended

i would seek legal advice if you have concerns ,this could be a gray area for you , maybe clearer for other local residents

cheers

 

Relationship turned sour, tenants are playing games and trying to claim they feel threatened and intimidated (magic words for xCAT).
Naturally, I have nothing to hide, but I'd think that being followed, electronically or physically actually constitute an intimidation of the LL.

This intimidation and threatening card is such a wild card where both sides trying to prove who's more scared of the other.

But generally, I believe most people will feel uncomfortable knowing every move they make is recorded. Even if they don't do anything wrong.

I'm actually surprised how permissive the Surveillance Devices Act is. Not just for PM, but overall.
I was quite amazed to find one can recorded (both audio and video) a private conversation without disclosing not ask for permission as long as they are part of the conversation.

To extend my previous question than, can I also pull my mobile and start recording an engagement while inspecting, as I'm part of the conversation? I'm legally allowed to be in the private property of someone else for the duration of the inspection.

 

Bit more complex.... I'm the owner of the other part which is being recorded and I'm not interested in entertaining the recording side.

 

Yeah. No.
PMs turned to be useless when things get bad.
There's solicitor involved and we're doing our best to smooth it over.

Other side will have to decide if they wanna go for full war or come to the table.
They are already in world of trouble and even VCAT will find it hard to ignore the act.

 

Shrug, obviously I don't know the full backstory, but I suspect you're making this a bigger deal than it needs to be.

I can't see why being recorded or not would affect what you need to do during an inspection.

And if you have other things to worry about, then why not worry about them and not make this into another issue.

 

You're probably right.
I'm not gonna take this too far. It's not gonna major issue anyway.

The outside recording issue is more to let my other tenant who's being recorded the ability to not feel he's on camera every time he decide to scratch his backside.
I owe him the same quite enjoyment those guy deserve...

 

I can't walk up the street without being on camera numerous times, let alone when near a pub/entering a shop.......

You could turn of the power at the mains (most don't have a ups) but in doing so you will appear to be doing so to hide something/being fraudulent (adding fuel to the fire).

Best to provide them NOTHING, ensure you have a third party present, be quick, polite careful and courteous (in and out, have PM take heaps and heaps of pics).

As for the adjoining neighbor, it isn't your issue to fix their issue with the cams, nothing you can do.

 

So your concern about the outside cameras is on behalf of your other tenant?

And your concern about cameras inside the house is about you being recorded?

Where does that tenant live, exactly? In the same house, or in an adjacent house or unit?

 

I really don't see the issue. If you are doing the right thing, you've nothing to hide.

 

Flick the power circuits and guarantee it won't be on ups. Guaranteed they'll be even more ****** you tripped the circuit with a gap in footage. Alternatively arrange sparky for same time to do "testing"

This seems completely rediculous to me although there's always BS somewhere (back story)

 

It's a big property, the other tenant is leasing farm land.
I know it's not like a house and stuff, but surely someone who's leasing a private land is entitled to quick enjoyment of the property they lease.
For me have a camera stuck in face all day doesn't feel like quite enjoyment.

Do you feel this urge to check your speed while travelling with your car and seeing police?
Even knowing you're driving below the limit? Even if the cruise control engaged?

It's the same thing.
It's the feeling of being watched, even if you have nothing to hide.
It's the need to constantly remind yourself to keep on top of your game. Don't put the finger up your nose, don't be tempted to get the knickers out of the buttcrack...

 

I agree.... Proactively turning them off won't achieve anything.
And sure there's a back story - I was forced to stop a routine inspection due to the tenant brining, on the day, without letting me know, someone who from the moment I step foot in the house in my face, trying to block me from doing any kind of inspecting, standing in from of the camera, following me around while constantly kept shouting "by the law! by the law!" (I didn't really listen to her, so I'm not sure what she was on about. I did ask the tenant to remove her so I can do what I came to do).

10 minutes later, with 11 pictures and no-inspection, I left the house stating I was asked many time to remove this person from the premise while I'm, stated I'm feeling ganged on (I was by myself), threatened and intimidated.
I finally said I will have to leave cause I feel unsafe, and when they just kept going - I felt.

Upon the tenants receiving a notice to vacate within 14 days due to threatening and intimidating behaviour towards me, she came back with what is clearly her paving the way for VCAT, stating she was feeling.... You guessed it - threated and intimidated and anxious.
She then went on to "remind" me that she has note on the front door that there's 24/7 surveillance and I'm the star of the movie. I was not aware nor I was told or asked for permission.

I'm not too worries, as I was a single person faced by 2 people, and one of them (not the tenant) was constantly in my face. The recording won't do her any favours, so basically working for my advantage.

However, given we all know VCAT (if we get to a possession order hearing) will find a way to rule that actually, it's ok. The poor tenant is in the right, and it's ok to ambush the LL who came to perform a lawful inspection, it also ok to follow them within less then 1 metre at all time and anyway - where would the poor tenant live if we order them to leave?
So I'm willing to let this go this once, given the tenant agrees to let me complete an inspection peacefully, but wonder what are the options with the video/audio recording.
If it is what it is, that's fine. I will be extra aware and if in doubt, I'll pull my mobile phone and start filming.
It's always better to have the story shot from 2 points of view....

 

No one forced you to cease undertaking your inspection, it was your decision. Did you send the appropriate notification that you would be undertaking an inspection (with the right period for notification?)

She must have been a pretty burly woman to be that intimidating (or are you a smaller build?)

Why did you not book a follow up inspection?

You appear to have no faith in PMs but are also incapable of doing what you feel a PM can't do either.

 

Well, the act seems to disagree with you:
Immediate notice for violence, dangerous behaviour and serious damage

I was forced to cease due to concern for my personal safety.

And yes. As much you might find it astonishing - I provided all the required notices.
Which you could guess as I was faced with someone who was intentionally there to confront me at the time of the booked inspection.

When did size made any difference to someone safety?
What are you on about? Being faced with two women, as a single person who suppose to walk about, closely followed by them. What guarantee do I have that the aggressive person won't produce a knife?
How does my build would protect me from being attacked from the back?
Not to mention I've notice few cars on the property and since I was faced with someone who I don't know nor I was informed will be there, how would I know who else is on the premise?

Cause I'm not feeling safe and trying to make sure the next I'm there, my safety is guaranteed?

I wouldn't say that. Not sure how you came up with this.
I'm very capable of doing exactly what I'm suppose to do under the act: produce notice to vacate due to being threatened and intimidated (Subdivision 5, 91ZK)

 

NO! If I know I'm doing the right thing, there's no issue whatsoever.

 

I'd say you are a very unique human being.

 

This is your chances to shine. Knowing that I was being recorded while doing an inspection, I would be extra super nice and helpful, I'd be very polite in anything I said and perhaps mention some parts of the tenancy act in a casual way to make you look like a good guy who recognises the tenants interests and legal rights. Perhaps make a couple of jokes while on camera to show you're a nice guy. Also bring a block of chocolate wrapped as a gift and present it enthusiastically to the tenant while being very grateful and appreciative of their time for you to inspect in accordance with the tenancy act