Tenant told: dogs have to go

Discussion in 'Property Management' started by Numbers_man_numbers, 27th Jun, 2018.

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  1. Numbers_man_numbers

    Numbers_man_numbers Active Member

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    Hey Guys, what do you think of this situation?

    Tenant moved in with permission to have a pets (2 small dogs - apartment with a courtyard).

    Other residents complained 2 days after he moved in, the property manager (not same as REA) told him the dogs have to go.

    Thanks in advance for your comments :)
     
  2. Paul@PAS

    Paul@PAS Tax, Accounting + SMSF + All things Property Tax Business Plus Member

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    You are the owner. Whats the Strata policy and why didnt you communicate it ? Ididnt know is not a suitable response.

    You cant lease to someone with pets if they arent permitted. They could have the lease thrown out. You could even be liable for their costs.

    Maybe a legal question for your solicitor before you progress further. Is the PM or yourself liable ?
     
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  3. thatbum

    thatbum Well-Known Member

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    I think its sounds odd. What's the context? Are you the landlord here?

    And how is the property manager not the same as the REA?

    Do you mean like the strata manager?
     
  4. Jane Ridder

    Jane Ridder Well-Known Member

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    It is strange.

    The thread title is 'tenant asking for rent reduction'. Does that mean they'll get rid of their two dogs if you reduce the rent?
     
    Last edited: 27th Jun, 2018
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  5. Lil Skater

    Lil Skater Well-Known Member

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    What state is this in and what reason does the OC give for not having the dogs present? The PM should've checked the by laws before approving the tenant, but beyond that in some states I know that blanket bans against pets are banned.

    If I were the tenant and just moved into a property and told to get rid of my pets, I would be asking for more than a rent reduction. My pet is part of my family and if she were not welcome I would be moving and asking that all costs are covered as I wouldn't have taken a property would I have known she wouldn't be welcome.

    Either someone has majorly stuffed up, someone is trying to enforce a rule that probably isn't enforceable or something has happened (loud barking constantly, damage to common property etc).
     
  6. highlighter

    highlighter Well-Known Member

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    Pets are part of the family. If he was told he could have pets, I don't think it's in any way reasonable to say they have to go unless the pets are doing damage or similar. As Lil Skater said, I'd be asking for a lot more than a rent reduction, I'd be asking to end the lease and to have my costs covered. Why did the neighbours complain? Seems odd. Are pets not permitted in the building? In some states you now have to allow pets.
     
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  7. marmot

    marmot Well-Known Member

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    Just tell the strata they are assistance dogs , every time someone knocks on the door they bark and alert you.
    Cant remember where I read that one.
     
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  8. Numbers_man_numbers

    Numbers_man_numbers Active Member

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    Sorry, @Paul@PFI , @marmot , @highlighter , @Lil Skater , @Jane Ridder and @thatbum

    Thanks for the thoughtful comments and questions.

    I should have provided more info. I was trying to keep it general, so I didn't elaborate on my interest. The title was to get attentions (sorry), but its somewhat relevant as would want to renegotiate if I was the tenant.

    This is a situation one of my close friend going through. He is a property investor himself - first time renting for himself.
    • The by laws allow pets
    • The Building complex has an onsite manager, its one of those new developments with multiple high-rises.
    • The building manager received noise complaints from neighbours and told him to remove the dogs. And he complied, I wouldn't have, I would also be close to killing the REA but he is a better man than me.
    He signed up for more than market rent as the apartment was listed pet friendly and had the courtyard. So I feel he is entitled to renegotiate if he is not allowed to keep the pets after all, don't you agree??
     
  9. Numbers_man_numbers

    Numbers_man_numbers Active Member

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    Thanks, even with the scant info i provided earlier you have read the situation perfectly. Its the barking. But they (the dogs) need some time to adjust. Surly a property manager would know, that it will take more than 2 days for an animal to get use to new surroundings.
     
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  10. TMNT

    TMNT Well-Known Member

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    Allowed to negotiate? Sure
    Entitled for reduction? Not a chance in hell

    Just because circumstances change through no fault of the owner, a contract is a contract, doesn't mean you're entitled.


    What if the owner had calculated his financial position based on the full rent?
     
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  11. Eric Wu

    Eric Wu Well-Known Member Business Member

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    does the Lease Agreement include pets?

    is there any written agreement stating pet permission?
     
  12. thatbum

    thatbum Well-Known Member

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    I don't see it as clear cut as that. There's some scenarios where it very much could be the "fault" of the owner actually.

    After all, the place was advertised as pet friendly, which didn't end up being true (possibly).
     
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  13. TMNT

    TMNT Well-Known Member

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    Well. If the owner had something to do with the pet clause being revoked. Then that's a different kettle. Of. Fish
     
  14. Lil Skater

    Lil Skater Well-Known Member

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    If by-laws allow pets, I would explain to the building manager that the dogs need time to adjust. Perhaps your friend could look into new toys to help them adjust, it's not fair on other occupants on the building to put up with constant barking - but it's also not fair to start making a fuss about it after two days.

    If your friend works full time, perhaps they can set up a camera to see just how much their dogs are barking when they're not around. If it's only from time to time the neighbours need to suck it up, living in close proximity means it won't always be quiet and it's reasonable to expect that a dog would bark from time to time. If it's constant, maybe your friend needs to look into further training or toys as mentioned above - or even just staying home for a couple of days to help the dogs settle in.

    As I said, I wouldn't even stay at a property if my pets weren't welcome. I think your friend has made perhaps a hasty decision without considering other options.
     
  15. EN710

    EN710 Well-Known Member

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    Read the by-laws on rules regarding pets. My previous building allow 1 dog and if there are noise problems, there are no rules that can force you to get rid of said pets. They can, however, penalised me for noise. The rules in your friend's building maybe different, but I really doubt the building manager can enforce pet removal from the property.

    Personally, I'm with @Lil Skater - if my pet's aren't welcome, I will be out.
     
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  16. willair

    willair Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    I know one item that stand's out, while talking to the property managers while sorting out the rental on a 2 bedroom unit that ivé just finished late last week for one of our daughters ,they told me you open up a bigger pool of tenants when you allow pets..From what they told me most Landlords don't like pets and the way the downside with rentals in the small area our daughter bought into and as that pet maybe the only company that person has if they live alone it may work out better-rather then the unit sitting there like so many that I have watched some vacant for over 6 weeks..I like pets ..imho..
     
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  17. Numbers_man_numbers

    Numbers_man_numbers Active Member

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  18. Russ

    Russ Well-Known Member

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    You're attacking the wrong person. It's the neighbours who complained. They are the ones who should have any necessary understanding about adjustment time.

    People will say the building manager is wrong if he says the pets are a problem, and people will say the building manager is wrong if he doesn't fix the neighbour's complaint.....

    If the actual situation is reasonable, then the problem is the complainant, not the intermediary - who is wrong whatever they do or don't do.

    Other posters are correct to distinguish the right to keep a pet on the Lot, vs the Noise issue. They are separate by-laws.

    The most common pet by-law in NSW requires the written approval of the Owners Corporation, which can only be approved in a formally convened meeting which required Notice and Agenda, and Minutes to be issued - unless authority is delegated to someone (Strata Manager or other) to determine such applications - which almost never happens. By-laws which don't require application and approval can be registered, and that may be the case here - or it may have just been another case of non-compliance (not having made an application and received an approval by the Owners Corporation prior to informing the tenant they can have the pet) - which is very common.

    It so happens that nearly every Owners Corporation gives such approvals incorrectly, but that's where many problems come from - because you can imagine how unhappy the neighbours will be if a building manager (or anyone else) routinely gives approval and then a tenant irresponsibly keeps yapping/barking dogs that disturb the units around them.

    Probably the only idiots are people who oversimplify such a situation. The real problem with boom times is that idiots trip over gains on investments that they don't even understand - and watch them whinge when the good times stop rolling.
     
  19. Marg4000

    Marg4000 Well-Known Member

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    It is also up to the new tenants to ensure the dog is settled in to the new premises before leaving the animal alone for an extended period such as being away at work for 10-12 hours the day after moving in. Under those circumstances any dog will be bewildered and upset and naturally will be barking to try to attract attention.
    Marg
     
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  20. Russ

    Russ Well-Known Member

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    100% agree.

    The actual people in these communities need to be taking responsibility for their actions, not just doing whatever they want and thinking that paid service providers (building managers, strata managers) are there to guarantee them freedom to do whatever they want, as well as not being adversely impacted by the actions of others who are also doing whatever they want - simultaneously.