Tenant has vacated. Never received notice to vacate.

Discussion in 'Property Management' started by Wizzbef, 8th May, 2019.

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  1. Wizzbef

    Wizzbef Member

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    After reminding our tenant to pay her rent in arrears she has messaged via text that she has left the premises and she had sent a "letter" 2 weeks notice to vacate, 3 weeks ago.

    I'm assuming she sent it via regular mail.

    We have not sighted this "letter".

    We had served our tenant a 120 day notice to vacate 6 weeks ago. Apart from not requiring a reason to do so, we have been granted permission to develop the property.

    I have driven past the premises ( completely unaware that the tenant was intending to move) and she was still at the premises 14 days after the date she claims she sent us the notice.

    Yes, we self manage. Have done so with the same tenant for the past 15 years for this premises.

    I'm not upset that she has moved, but she owes us rent, we have not received a legal notice to vacate, the house has been left filthy, requiring repainting and carpeting after obviously keeping her large dog inside. We have never given permission for her to keep a dog inside. There will be a large cleaning bill and tip fees.

    Neighbours have told me she was still living in the premises after her vacate date.

    I am in the midst of lodging a VCAT submission.

    Do I have a leg to stand on?

    She has returned the keys today by registered post but never sent the "letter" by registered post.

    I sent her a text message telling her we would be at the premises to do a final inspection on the weekend and asked for a forwarding address for any paperwork etc.
    She didn't turn up or forward an address.

    Wizz
     
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  2. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Well-Known Member

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    @Lil Skater is the Victoria expert PM.

    You have given the tenant notice, they can vacate at any time during the notice period by giving the appropriate notice (at least in NSW).

    Notice doesn't need to be by registered post.

    Send mail to the last known address, they may have arranged for a redirection. Also use the address for VCat notice.
     
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  3. Trainee

    Trainee Well-Known Member

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    When was the last time an inspection was done? Is there a deposit?

    If you are redeveloping, are you really going to paint and carpet?
     
  4. Wizzbef

    Wizzbef Member

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    I'm aware that the tenant can give 14 days notice. I have not received the notice. So I'm assuming that goes in the tenants favour?
    She states she sent a notice dates 14/4/19. My husband spoke to her on 24/4 chasing rent in arrears and told my husband that she had applied for 2 houses and had not heard back if she had been successful. We have documented all this.
    There is a bond.
    We are subdividing the back which includes demolishing carports and fencing. Keeping the house.Totally unsuitable for children and large dogs (running onto busy roads etc..) that were not permitted in the first place (large dog that is..)
    Cleaning bill will be in the hundreds..
     
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  5. Joynz

    Joynz Well-Known Member

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    Since you are redeveloping, why would you clean or paint? If this tenant has been there 15 years maybe the premises are a bit run down anyway?
     
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  6. marmot

    marmot Well-Known Member

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    After 15 years she would have virtually paid off the property for you.
     
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  7. Trainee

    Trainee Well-Known Member

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    When did you last do an inspection and was the dog there?

    If it costs you hundreds, your lucky. 15 years of no vacancies has been pretty good.

    Push for all your legal rights, but really, its not a bad outcome.
     
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  8. Wizzbef

    Wizzbef Member

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    Sure there is an update for carpet required...now that it's foul with dog urine stains. Iron burn marks.
    Mouldy showers, the usual stuff. 2-3 trailer loads of rubbish "hidden" behind shed. 1/4 acre of dog faeces to clean up. Doors hanging off cupboards. Inspection done in last 12 months and none of this apparent then.
     
  9. Wizzbef

    Wizzbef Member

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    15 years of no vacancies has been great, I know. We have attended to tenants request promptly and "kept her happy". When we saw the dog outside, we told tenant that she did not have permission for a dog. Really what do you do about that?
    Inspection done in the last 12 months.
     
  10. Wizzbef

    Wizzbef Member

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    Yes and she told me so. Didn't take into consideration Interest rates, land rates, water rates, insurance, maintenance.
     
  11. Trainee

    Trainee Well-Known Member

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    You issue a breach. You didnt. Thats on you.
     
  12. Michael Mitchell

    Michael Mitchell Well-Known Member

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    You've got the keys back, property is back in your control.

    1. Comprehensive exit condition report + date & time stamped photos.
    2. Lodge insurance claim for damages and rent owing
    3. Start getting quotes/estimates for remediation
    4. Lodge bond claim (assuming full) based on known facts first, such as outstanding rent and water, then based on quotes/estimates
    5. Prepare xCAT compensation claim for everything - rent, water, cleaning, damage
    6. Join a tenancy database operator such as TICA, issue the tenant with the warning letter
    7. All the while, converse with tenant periodically to see if they are willing to pay the money they owe for outstanding amounts & repairs etc, using pending tenancy database listing as incentive for them to rectify
    8. Once tenancy database warning period waited, lodge them on the database so they are blacklisted
    9. xCAT hearing will take 8-12 weeks; loss adjuster should have booked time within a few days of lodging the claim to come check it out and start on their report for the insurer.
    10. If there is any malicious or wilful-y looking damage, make a complaint with Police, tell them you just need a reference number for insurance, so they don't actually need to waste their time.

    Provided you have an entry report and hopefully some photos, you should do well at xCAT, especially if the tenant doesn't appear. The insurer is less forgiving if you haven't mitigated your risk appropriately by doing proper entry/exit reports with photos and routine inspections and issued breach notices on time in attempt to mitigate damage/exposure etc.

    I know it's hard when it gets personal being your own property, but stay professional and focus on the issues (not the person) when dealing with the tenant. They may try and diverge away from the point during discussions, the point is they need to rectify the $/damage etc, so steer the conversations back on topic when this happens. You may need to have the same conversations over and over until the message sinks in to the tenant - you're not letting this go, they need to remedy the situation, until they do they will remain blacklisted and you are pursing compensation through xCAT as well as the Insurer (who pass their loss onto debt collectors who will hassle them later on), etc.

    [Edit:] Just saw you've had the same tenant for 15 years and something about demo and renovations...….pick your battles, that's a loooooong time for 'fair wear & tear', especially if you've known about the animal(s) which have caused damage and you have not breached/evicted which unfortunately means you're ok with it almost :/
     
    Last edited: 8th May, 2019
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  13. Marg4000

    Marg4000 Well-Known Member

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    After a 15 year tenancy you will find just about everything will be considered fair wear and tear. Carpets (unless recently replaced), painting, etc ALL need doing in that time frame.

    I would not waste any more money taking the tenant to the tribunal. An entry report 15 years old is not going to help at all.

    Did you follow up on the dog issue after the initial formal breach notice?

    You gave her notice to vacate - she’s gone!
    15 years with no vacancies!
    Winning.
    Marg

    PS: if you intend to continue to self-manage, 12 months is far too long between inspections (as you have probably realised).
     
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  14. S.T

    S.T Well-Known Member

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    May want to look up the depreciation life of carpets, I think its 10 years, if so you're not going to get any money for them. The other stuff, you can try and claim cleaning/rubbish removal from the bond.

    Time to just move on.
     
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  15. Lil Skater

    Lil Skater Well-Known Member

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    Tenant needs to give 14 days notice, I'd take it from the date keys returned (or you were made aware).

    As above, after 15 years you'll be very hard pushed to get anything. Generally speaking most items have a 7-10 year depreciation and VCAT will take this into consideration. If you have photos of the previous inspection you may have a small chance of receiving a very small amount of compensation for the carpets, but it is also quite unlikely depending on the member you get.
     
  16. datto

    datto Well-Known Member

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    So after 15 years the tenant did a runner.

    I'd say her partner just got out of jail. This happens often in Mt Druitt. Normally after 20 years though. Just be happy she cleared out, things could have been a lot worse.
     
  17. Wizzbef

    Wizzbef Member

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    If tenant claims they dated the 14 day notice 14 April (a Sunday) and notice was sent via regular mail, when does the vacate date come into effect . Aust Post website says delivery b/w both postcodes would arrive Thur 18th to Frid 19th April.

    Is it valid to claim rent until 28th April or 1st May?
     
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  18. Trainee

    Trainee Well-Known Member

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    Is this claiming on insurance or from the bond? Sounds like the bond wont cover everything anyway?
     
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  19. Wizzbef

    Wizzbef Member

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    The bond. My first VCAT hearing. I'm terming it a Personal Development day.
    Won't come anywhere near the bond, as the bond goes 15 years back and as everyone says I am fortunate that I have had paid rent with no vacancies within this time.
    Arming myself with knowledge for future tenancies.
    I am doing the cleaning my self. You know like cleaning up the vomit off the toilet walls and pubic hair stuck to the toilet floor.
    Will my personal cleaning invoice have any grounds at a Tribunal hearing?
    Note: not claiming cleaning of filthy, grotty walls .
     
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  20. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Well-Known Member

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    Not worth the paper it's written on. Get a professional in and charge the lot.
     
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