QLD Tenant damage to property / Insurance claim

Discussion in 'Property Management' started by Foreshadow, 15th Mar, 2022.

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  1. Foreshadow

    Foreshadow Well-Known Member

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    So I had a call from my PM on Friday. Apparently whilst my tenants were at work there mother came to the property with her boyfriend. A domestic took place requiring the police to attend. From the limited info I have, there were claims of a weapon involved so the police forced entry after they were denied access via the occupants.

    Damage includes the kitchen window and fly screen is broken, the glass on the back upstairs door is broken, they've tried to get in in the front downstairs sliding door by smashing that but no luck, and the back downstairs wooden door is off it's hinges with a broken door handle.

    Now my PM has suggested to put in an insurance claim. In all the conversation I can’t recall if they said they would pass on the excess to the tenant or not, but I’d assume that was a given. My question is regarding if I am obliged to go through insurance. On one hand the tenant is not at fault for the damage, however is responsible for the people they allow on the property. Do I claim it on insurance, which I assume would lead to higher fifer premiums, or would you insist the tenant fix all damage themselves? If I didn’t have insurance I’d be chasing them to get all damaged fixed.

    What would everyone do?
     
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  2. Michael Mitchell

    Michael Mitchell Well-Known Member

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    Breach the Tenant for causing damage, obtain quotes to repair etc, pass on Tenant ask Tenant to pay. Whether you have insurance or does does not obfuscate the Tenants obligations under their tenancy to not damage the property etc. @thatbum will chime in with the caveats if damage was caused but not by the Tenant etc and what that entails. If you can name the party at fault will your insurer really increase your premium or is that just a perceived thing - perhaps check out that, even ask them the question? This is no fault of yours and you have insurance for exactly these type of scenarios to mitigate your loss, what is the point of having insurance if you're too scared to use it so to speak.
     
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  3. Marg4000

    Marg4000 Well-Known Member

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    Claim on your insurance.
    Then pursue the tenant for any excess payable.
     
  4. Firefly99

    Firefly99 Well-Known Member

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    In QLD the landlord can’t get the tenant to cover the cost of repairing damage to the property that was the result of domestic violence. Not sure if that would be relevant here?

    I would treat this more like a crime rather than malicious damage by the tenant. What would you do if someone broke in and trashed the house and you didn’t have insurance? You can’t make the tenant pay for that. It’s a criminal matter.
     
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  5. thatbum

    thatbum Well-Known Member

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    Insurance claim seems like a no brainer on the brief outline of information provided.

    You have a raft of problems trying to claim directly. Is the tenant even liable? Who knows - you've mostly said that the police caused the damage for a start.

    I've mentioned extensively in other threads that it is a terrible idea to pursue the tenant for the excess payable, since it might, among other things, void your insurance.
     
  6. Foreshadow

    Foreshadow Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the advice all.

    I was relating this to my own experience of renting. I’ve recently got a dog at the place I rent which has caused some damage I will need to fix before leaving the property. This got me thinking of can the tenant just say, repairs are going to cost me more then the owners excess, I’m not going to fix it just claim it on your insurance.

    Personally i had never considered this an option.

    Obviously this is not the same situation but had me thinking about where the line is between making repairs, and flicking it onto the insurance company.

    Not sure how I would feel if I had to pay the excess though. Surely as it’s there visitor it’s their responsibility.
     
    Last edited: 15th Mar, 2022
  7. Stoffo

    Stoffo Well-Known Member

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    So the tenant provided their mother with a key ?
    Or did their mother/boyfriend B&E ?

    I'd expect the tenant to make good as they have authorized the use of the property by providing a key (and who refuses to allow the police access unless they are doing something illegal ?).

    The house isn't currently secure, so the tenant could now claim anyone could have caused any amount of damage, so ha e your PM take extensive photo's :cool:

    The quick way to get rid of the tenant would be to refuse to fix the doors/secure the property (no one want's to sleep in a house you can't lock up o_O) as it is damage was caused/resulted by a tenant authorised user, so they are responsible to fix :p

    In reality I can see an eviction on the horizon with a NCAT case :(
    When it's vacant/handed back I'd also claim insurance ;)
    Ensure your PM puts a review in of "0" recommendation :p
     
  8. Foreshadow

    Foreshadow Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I am still waiting for full details.

    All ive really been told is the damage done, a copy of "Notice of Damage" left by the police with the reason on it being "Police damaged property whilst investigating domestic violence" And the following email from the tenant that has been forwarded on to me

    "Hey (PM)!


    This is the report they've given me, but the kitchen window and fly screen is broken, the glass on the back upstairs door is broken, they've tried to get in in the front downstairs sliding door by smashing that but no luck, and the back downstairs wooden door is off it's hinges with a broken door handle.

    I am so sorry for the inconvenience. Please let me know how I can help or what I need to do.


    (Tenants names) were at work so we don't know the full details of what happened, but from what we were told Tenant 1's mother has come over and brought a friend that we weren't aware of over, started what they called a domestic violence against Tenant 1's mother and they needed to get into the property to detain him and his weapons. "

    At this stage I cant hold much against the tenants, Ive had no problem with them for the 2 years they have been at the property. They have reported the incident straight away.
     
    Last edited: 15th Mar, 2022
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  9. Michael Mitchell

    Michael Mitchell Well-Known Member

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    If I were in your shoes based off that email (which seems pretty genuine) I'd just go with LL insurance claim.
     
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  10. Foreshadow

    Foreshadow Well-Known Member

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    Yeah that the plan im going with.
     
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  11. chooke

    chooke Well-Known Member

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    I have successfully claimed insurance excess from the tenant's bond on exit.
     
  12. thatbum

    thatbum Well-Known Member

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    Define "successfully"?

    And did you tell your insurer that? Legally its very likely that you're meant to under your insurance contract. The money is then probably theirs, as well as giving them the power to void your claim and clawing back the money they gave you.

    How did you navigate that issue?
     
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  13. chooke

    chooke Well-Known Member

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    Dunno, the excess was added to the other costs claimed against the bond and the magistrate approved the claim.
     
  14. thatbum

    thatbum Well-Known Member

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    Yes the court will approve it because its a tenant-lessor liability. But it creates legal issues between you and your insurer.

    The reality is that its almost certainly not going to be practically something an insurer follows up on, but its important to understand the legal issue.
     
  15. jaydee

    jaydee Well-Known Member

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    You may be correct, but can you explain why the Insurer would be entitled to the excess being paid twice? Once when the claim was made and again if that same figure was recovered by the LL from the tenant.
     
  16. thatbum

    thatbum Well-Known Member

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    Because when you claim on your insurance, you're essentially selling your legal right to claim from the tenant for those insured losses. The legal concept is called Subrogation in this context.

    So when you then make a claim against the tenant in court, you're double dipping and any money recovered is legally your insurer's anyway.

    Things are even worse when obtaining an order for just the excess amount because you've essentially short-changed your own insurer because they can't claim any more from the tenant.

    This website and case example explains it in more detail.

    The Insurers’ Right Of Subrogation Should Be Forefront During The Litigation Process. - William Roberts Lawyers
     
  17. wylie

    wylie Moderator Staff Member

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    If our tenant has damaged our garage door with their car and made a claim on their own vehicle insurance, are we okay to just let that happen?

    Are their any problems with this?
     
  18. thatbum

    thatbum Well-Known Member

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    No not in any broad sense. Do you get paid now or have to wait?
     
  19. wylie

    wylie Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm assuming the damage will be fixed and the tenant will pay their insurer the excess. I won't be involved. Is that about right?
     
  20. Tom Rivera

    Tom Rivera Property Manager Business Member

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    Just make sure it's repaired professionally, should be no issues otherwise :)
     

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