Tasmania Makes Sex Optional

Discussion in 'Living Room' started by Terry_w, 10th Apr, 2019.

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  1. Terry_w

    Terry_w Lawyer, Tax Adviser and Mortgage broker in Sydney Business Member

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  2. hammer

    hammer Well-Known Member

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    @Terry_w I think that might just be the best thread title ever written.....
     
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  3. Terry_w

    Terry_w Lawyer, Tax Adviser and Mortgage broker in Sydney Business Member

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    In the way you are thinking sex was never optional in tassie!
     
  4. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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    It's been on the cards for months now ... I don't have a problem with the choice
     
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  5. Phantom

    Phantom Well-Known Member

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    Is sex compulsory in the other states? Ooh ok, just read the article.........:eek:
     
  6. Sackie

    Sackie Well-Known Member

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    Soon being classified as a homo sapien will be optional.

    The whole PC movement is beyond maddness. Bloody loony toons.
     
  7. Redwing

    Redwing Well-Known Member

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    sex...or gender :D

    According to the latest Australian Sex Survey, there are at least 33 terms for "gender" that Australians now use to identify themselves. These range from "genderfluid" (someone who does not identify entirely with either the female or male genders) to neutrois (a non-binary gender identity which is considered to be a neutral or null gender.)

    In addition, the survey includes an option to describe your gender in your own words in an accompanying text box. Here's are the complete definitions, courtesy of news.com.au:
     
  8. TSK

    TSK Well-Known Member

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    Don't see how it's anyone's business how someone wants to declare their gender or sex. If you have an issue with it, its more a reflection on issues with you than anything else imo.
     
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  9. Dan Donoghue

    Dan Donoghue Well-Known Member

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    I would love to see someone write "How do you think we ended up here?" on there under sex ;)
     
  10. Peter_Tersteeg

    Peter_Tersteeg Mortgage Broker Business Member

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    It could be argued that gender may be considered a state of mind, preference or could be however a person chooses to define themselves. I've no problem with this. Call yourself what you like. Dress in a manner that makes you comfortable. Live life of your terms and offer the same courtesy to others.

    Sex is a function of biology and might be chromosomes and/or hormone levels. This isn't a question of social acceptance, equality, upbringing or preference. It's biology. Medical treatments can change this somewhat, but not completely at this point in time.

    This is an increasingly important distinction in sports (and likely other areas I haven't thought of). For example, I play archery, a sport you'd think there would be very little distinction of results between men and women.

    As of my last national tournament in November 2018, I was ranked about 50th in Australia in my age and archery style division. Of those raking higher than me, only about 5 are female. I asked the person regarded as Australia's top expert in archery what the difference is.

    The expert indicated that women tend to have a moderate advantage in fine muscle control and breathing. Men usually have a significant strength and arm length advantage. Men can pull a heavier bow back further, the arrows fly faster and flatter, making them more accurate. Men can usually do this more times before fatiguing. The natural male advantage tends to be greater than the natural female advantage in this sport. Women certainly can work on their strength and stamina, but there's not a lot they can do about their arm length.

    If I were to self identify as female, I could currently make the Australian team and compete internationally (something I'm unlikely to ever achieve as a male). I know at least 5 people who would have a problem with that.
     
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  11. Perp

    Perp Well-Known Member

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    OK, so I'd like to weigh in as somebody with both a BSc majoring in genetics, and a lawyer, because I think there's a lot of misinformation about this subject.

    Firstly, for around 98% of us, we have XX or XY chromosomes, we are 'obviously' male or female, and we feel 'obviously' male or female, we have always known we are male or female and never been confused about it, and many of the stereotypes about typically male or female characteristics apply to us.

    This isn't about us.

    But there are a good 2% of the population for whom this simply isn't true.

    Just because something isn't true for me, doesn't mean it's wrong or a lie. I don't have red hair, either, but around 2% - the same proportion - of people do, and I don't deny their experience, or delegitimise it. About 10% of the population - five times as many! - are depressed at any time, 1% have dementia, and another 1% have schizophrenia. I don't have any of these things, but I don't dismiss them as illegitimate on the basis that I'm not experiencing them, or can't imagine what it's like.

    So with that background... there are two separate groups affected by this whose issues sometimes overlap, and sometimes don't, and of course, some people fall into both groups:

    1) transgender people - people who experience the sense that the gender society says they are, doesn't match their innate sense of what gender they are, and who are frequently best treated by undergoing gender transition (~0.5%), and

    2) intersex people - people whose 'apparent' gender - the gender they 'look' like to society, doesn't match their chromosomal gender (~1.5%).

    The Tasmanian legislation is designed to address the concerns of both groups - rightly in my view. If you can't bring yourself to understand what it's like to be transgender, as is apparent from many comments in this thread, then please consider the plight of intersex people, who are actually more numerous.

    Unless you've had biological children, you may even be one of them and not know. Many people only discover that they're intersex when seeking fertility treatment (as they're almost always infertile).

    Some examples of intersex conditions:
    • Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome - these are people who have XY chromosomes, but due to a genetic defect, their body is unable to be affected by androgen - the sex hormone that leads to development of male sexual characteristics - and thus they appear female. Many of these women only discover that genetically they are 'male' when they seek fertility treatment as adults.
    • Klinefelter Syndrome - these are people with the XXY chromosomal abnormality. Most develop as men - albeit infertile - but some, due to lesser male expression, develop as women.
    • Adrenal hyperplasia in XX - people with XX configuration can be born with (congenital adrenal hyperplasia) or develop a malfunction of the adrenal gland that causes excessive masculinising hormones to be produced, enlarging the clitoral glans to the extent that it can cause it to look like a penis, and the labia to look like a scrotum. They look male but are genetically XX.
    There are just three examples of intersex conditions where having to nominate a gender on a birth certificate creates additional trauma for people - either for parents dealing with a birth of a child with medical problems, or for an adult who discovers that they're infertile and not - genetically, at least - the gender that they thought they were.

    And the primary purpose of birth certificates, and the reason the state issues them, is for the purpose of identifying people. What the state of Tasmania decided - rightly, in my view - is that knowing a person's full name, parents, place, and date of birth is more than adequate for the purpose of identifying them.

    The last three can't be changed, and there's a process for changing the first via deed poll, if one feels compelled to change their legal name.

    Forcing people to go through the emotional discomfort of changing their gender on a birth certificate, when that information adds zero to the identification process in any case, when they may have just found out medically unsettling news, was found not to be worth any dubious benefit that might accrue from including it on the birth certificate.

    One and a half percent of people are intersex. You might say 'well I don't know any!' Yeah, well, maybe it's embarrassing, and not the easiest thing to talk about. Would you want to tell your mates: 'I look like a bloke, but genetically I'm a woman!'?

    If you know a redhead, or somebody with dementia, chances are you also know somebody who's intersex.

    Great source of information on intersex conditions: http://www.isna.org
     
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  12. kierank

    kierank Well-Known Member

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    I found last night’s episode of “You Can’t Ask Me That’ on the ABC very informative. They were asking questions to a number of intersex people.

    Well worth watching, IMHO.
     
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  13. Perp

    Perp Well-Known Member

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    Oh wow, cheers, hadn't seen that, watching now. Intersex is so common and so few people know about it - great to see it being talked about!
     
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  14. Angel

    Angel Well-Known Member

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    Thank you @Perp for the informative comments.
    This makes perfect sense, and explains what the Tasmanian legislation is about. My (admittedly limited) reading of newspaper articles seemed very wierd; they were suggesting the parent can nominate any gender they choose for their newborn. On another note, I personally know two teens who are currently transitioning.
     
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  15. Mike A

    Mike A Well-Known Member

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    You must therefore have a testosterone level below 10 nanomoles per liter. Thats the IOC guidelines.
     
  16. Perp

    Perp Well-Known Member

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    I find that when I read news articles on any topic I know something about, they're frequently way off-base. I now assume they're just as off-base on every other topic, and go out of my way to ask of nearly every story: 'How could this have been spun? What might be the actual underlying story here?'
     
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  17. Terry_w

    Terry_w Lawyer, Tax Adviser and Mortgage broker in Sydney Business Member

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    There certainly are people out there with genitals that are abnormal and there are certainly people out there that clearly do not match their official gender so the non-gender on ID could be a benefit to these people.

    I live in Thailand for part of each year and come across many ladyboys. They are sort of accepted there, but they are still listed as male on their IDs and also get called up for military service - though if they have breast implants they are exempt I believe. Each year there are publications of their pictures when called up for the conscription test.
     
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