QLD Sydney sider looking @ Brisbane

Hi All,

Firstly cool forum. I'm a share/stock guy buy nature but i follow a couple of the major threads here to keep my finger on the pulse - some good posters around.

Can anyone provide me with some starting points/areas to research for the Brisbane area?

Am thinking a budget of 5-600 for a smallish house in the inner Brisbane area. Will that get me something within 5km of Brisbane CBD? I can go a little higher if need be and you guys suggest the value is there.

If I was to use Sydney terms to describe the areas I'm looking for I'd say the Brisbane equivalent of Drummoyne or Northbridge. Good areas but just that one step away and one price bracket down from the real expensive stuff. Also not really a reno job or anything 'special' just looking for a stock standard house in a niceish suburb which I can hold for a period of time.

 

@Kid hustlr

Should be able to purchase within 10km to 15km of the CBD. Plenty of the threads on Brissy.

What's value to you may not be value to someone else.

What are you hoping for this to do for you? Just buy and hold ? Reno? Develop?

What's after this house purchase ?

 

Yes agreed 10-15km may be more appropriate than 5km. That seems a stretch. Also fair apoint about value.

Just buy and hold - long term really. I wouldn't mind getting some extra exposure to the property market and for me personally Brisbane looks more appealing that Sydney or Melbourne.

In terms of bigger picture - I'm not sure. I currently have solid equity in my Sydney place and would like to expand my property holdings. My 2 real options are:
1. Upgrade out of my 2 bed apartment and buy a small house to raise the now growing family in Sydney
2. Stay in the apartment as long as possible and invest outside of Sydney.

Option 2 comes with it the risk of having to rentvest at some stage (not necessarily a bad thing!) but I currently have a foot hold in the Sydney market, PPR debt sucks and I'm of the view Sydney property will slow down from here in the very near future.

That's my reasoning to look north.

 

Hi All
I just joined this forum looks quite informative and im trying t learn as in the process of getting into the IP market in Brisbane

 

Yes it will.
realestate.com.au is your friend

 

Hi guys where would you invest if you had 300k for a 3 bedroom house in Brisbane? I'm thinking anywhere else would love to hear?looking for solids capital growth over the next 10 years, decent rental yields.

 

Point taken - I can do a large amount of the research myself.

Was more looking for some insight from posters who know the inner Brisbane area well and might be able to provide some insights (steer clear of road xyz, watch out for area xyz as it's flood prone etc)

Mod's feel free to delete if this thread offers nothing.

 

I meant, stick in the budget and see what comes up - set limits.

 

Not an expert in inner Brisbane area but I believe 500 to 600K can still get you some good properties within the 10km range. I just did a quick search with up to 600K budget and can see plenty of properties in Cannon Hill, Carina for example which are all decent suburbs within 10km range. Do plenty of due diligence though especially check flooding.

I would also start with the "Brisbane Looks Good" thread - lots and lots of good info by a myriad of posters over time. This would help you set some perspective on some of the suburbs to look out for. Happy reading!

For 300K budget and a 3 bed house I would suggest:
1. South - Logan suburbs, such as Marsden/Crestmead. Plenty of threads on here about Logan
2. North - Kallangur although the average price seems to be trending up. There's also a thread about this.
3. West - towards Goodna, again there's a thread about this by See Change

If you are looking for yield play it'll be hard to beat Logan. The highsets are notorious for yields (two storey houses in our Sydney term ) as these are the ones that can generate relatively high rents and therefore higher yields. There are still deals which you can achieve somewhere between 6 to 7% of yield with a decent purchase price.

As for capital growth over the next 10 years, I would say Brissie is a slow and steady market so over long term all 3 areas should do quite well.

 

Hi All,

As a Sydney-sider who has now resided in Brisbane for many years, I've been thinking of putting together a paper called "Brisbane for Sydneysiders". Brisbane is a very different place to Sydney and when I first went there, I was very confused on all the things I had learned from a Sydney perspective and had to re-position my thinking. Anyhow some key points to consider:

1. Geography. Sydney is like a 180 degree city, the CBD is close to the coast, and the suburbs arc around it like a protractor. Sydney has many proper sandy beaches and in general, desirability and prices work back from there. Brisbane's CBD is further inland, about 20 kms, its suburbs are more circular around the CBD (270/300 degrees like a Pacman). It's on a river and a bay. Moreton Bay is nice but it's not a beach. The nearest proper beaches are the Gold Coast (60km plus away) or Sunshine Coast (100km away). Yes Redcliffe has some but not in the same context. Hence, why Brisbane has a kind of country town feel. So hence properties say on the Bay are not like properties near the beach in Sydney in terms of price / desirability as such. Note they are not bad but not the same.

2. Brisbane vs Brisbane LGA. Sydney is comprised of 40 local councils, and when one refers to Sydney they kind of refer to the whole lot (not the city of Sydney LGA as such). However, Brisbane Local Govt Area (LGA) is one council, and is big and powerful. Often statistics / commentators say Brisbane property is cheap, half the price of Sydney etc but often they include Brisbane, Logan, Ipswich, Redlands, and Moreton Bay LGAs. So in Brisbane, there is a distinction of the "Brisbane LGA" area and those other areas that are not. Property prices in Brisbane LGA are more expensive than what most believe - still cheaper than Sydney / Melbourne, but properties within 5km are more likely to be close too or above $1m, and not the $500K people seem to think. When you add in the other LGAs, it brings the average down, hence why people think it's cheaper.

3. Distance. 5km in Brisbane is like 10km in Sydney, 10km is like 20km, 20/30km is like 40/50km. So when Sydney-siders see a property that's 25km from the Brisbane CBD, they go "wow, that's close" - but to a Brisbane person it's "wow - that's far". So need to get the sense of distance right.

4. Lot sizes. In general, the block of land (lot) sizes in Brisbane LGA are more standardised than in Sydney. Lots are typically 16 perch (405 sqm), 24 perch (607 sqm), and 32 perch (810 sqm). A house on a 810 lot STCA, can often be split or subdivided into 2 x 405 sqm lots. A "splitter" is where the house is actually sitting on 2 x 405 sqm lot titles already and doesn't need to be subdivided as it already is, otherwise it would need to go through a subdivision process. As you could imagine, 810 lots are very prized and desirable properties.

5. Architecture. Pre-1946 houses tend to be "Queenslanders", houses constructed of timber, often sitting up high off the ground, tin roofs. They range from 2 bedroom workers cottages to double story 6 bedroom mansions, the earlier ones tend to have very open verandahs, and the later ones built in the 30s, often called "Ashgrovians" with their triple gabled roofs are more closed in, but still have big verandahs. These houses are known as TBC (Traditional Building Character), very difficult to knock down or modify. Queenslanders are desirable PPORs (like Federation/Victorian Tce) for many but do require a lot of maintenance. After WWII, mostly plain wooden houses known as "Post War" Houses, sometimes with some stucco and tiled roof to make fancy. Then in 70s moved into big boxy red brick/blonde brick houses, then in the 80s / 90s more like Sydney - brick veneer style / render, and now modern contemporary style with skillion roofs, often fibre cement outside linings, but in new estates often a lot like Sydney style properties. Note that the 405 sqm lots have 10 m frontages, so many modern homes look like shoe-boxes, not very wide but very long. This is probably the style that people are building now in Brisbane LGA. As for units, early ones were like Queenslanders and look like Boarding houses, then some art-deco style near the city, then red/blonde brick, "6 packs" in the 70s, then contemporary rendered style in the 80s/90s, and now the egg-crate style you see in Sydney these days for modern multi-story units. However, there are a lot of small unit developments 4 to 8 units, and these ones are quite contemporary concrete slab / besser block construction. Townhouses are not as common but do exist.

6. Planning. Brisbane City Council (BCC) is king. They have their own planning laws, quite open (but there is a sense that developers rule), website is great (for example, you can see aerial photographs of 1946 to see if a house was there, check flood zones etc). See PD Online / Interactive mapping. Unlike NSW where a lot of planning is at state level, in Brisbane is more controlled at council level. For example, Brisbane LGA doesn't allow "granny flats" (auxiliary dwellings) like in NSW. (BCC does but it must be attached to the house and surely for use by your relative!) However, Logan and Ipswich LGAs do allow auxiliary dwellings which can be detached and occupied by anyone - hence why a lot of dual-occ / dual-key properties available in those LGAs. The zoning maps show where you can build multi-unit dwellings, how many stories and some special situations like "character infill" which allows the Queenslander to be kept at the front but some townhouses at the back, if the land is big enough. So very different rules.

7. Other. Traditionally the Western suburbs were more desirable than the East because of flooding issues, after-all Brisbane is built on flood plain, but people do like to live near the river and they are still very desirable near the water. There is the north / south divide but actually Brisbane is very homogeneous city in that a good property say 8km on the north side is as good as the same distance on the south side. The south side is probably more multicultural than the north side due to suburbs like Sunnybank which is the Asian heart of Brisbane. People go into the CBD all the time, and drive across town to see other people. In Sydney, on weekends, people usually never go into the CBD and people living in the Eastern suburbs never go past Redfern. The roads during peak hour are pretty busy and people commute from Gold Coast / Sunshine coast into the CBD (approx. 26,000 cars drive up from the Goldie every day to Brisbane CBD). Brisbane CBD is modern, and Brisbane has great coffee (Merlo, DiBella, Campos, Elixir all local roasters!), Brisbane doesn't have a surf culture (it's up / down the coast), and is very good for cycling.

8. Where to Buy. This is a very subjective question, some ideas:
i) Firstly, think that you want to buy in Brisbane LGA. There is a lot of merit and support for other LGAs like Logan / Ipswich etc, but the Brisbane LGA is probably still the best, because in the long term probably hard to make a mistake as it is still more desirable than other places unless you like the beach specifically - then go to the Gold Coast.

ii) If you want to buy a house, then for $500K, it's going to be more than 10km - 20km rather than 5km - 10km. Although, $550K - $600K could scrape into the 10km radius in some areas. Probably post-war houses / 70s style houses probably offer the most value as allow for some renovation, or knock down or rebuild, more modern style at the cheaper end tends to be further out. A lot of redevelopment is happening at the moment. 810 sqm lots are most desirable, but hard to get for a good price as everybody is buying them, but good in the long run. A good 607 sqm lot would be a sweet spot, so to a 405 sqm lot where value can be added.

iii) For units, probably avoid inner city high rise unless you got a really sweet deal, there's a lot of smaller size developments out in the suburbs which are not too bad, but probably some of those built in the 70s offer good value / can renovate / and development potential as a developer may want to buy the whole block one day. Also townhouses can offer some good value too.

iv) Suburb profiles:
* Most expensive areas - Hamilton, Ascot, Bulimba, Hawthorne, Balmoral, Norman Park, New Farm, Paddington, Chelmer, Sunnybank, Auchenflour, Hendra, etc to name a few. For example, houses in Ascot are very expensive but they have a lot of 70s style flats which are really cheap - note this is not a recommendation but an observation.

* Trendy / urban / Bohemian / Hipster areas - Paddington, New Farm, Newstead, Bulimba, West End, South Brisbane, Annerley, Fortitude Valley.

* Solid Middle Class areas - Ashgrove, Wilston, Grange, Windsor, Newmarket, Alderley, Indooroopilly, Toowong, Chapel Hill, Kenmore, Holland Park, Camp Hill, Yeronga, Clayfield,

* Next to the Middle Class areas - Morningside, Cannon Hill, Enoggera, Everton Park, Gaythorne, Michelton, Mt Gravatt, Kedron, Wavell Heights, Chermside, Upper Mt Gravatt, Mansfield, Jindalee.

* Emerging areas - Keperra, Arana Hills, Ferny Grove, Banyo, Nundah, Salisbury, Coopers Plains, Bracken Ridge, Moorooka, Oxley Park.

* Asian influenced - Sunnybank, Sunnybank Hills, Runcorn, Kuraby, Eight Mile Plains.

* Bayside (East) - Wynnum, Manly, North (Redcliffe, Shorncliffe, Sandgate).

* Still pretty cheap - those right on the edge of the Brisbane LGA like Forest Lake.

* Check those suburbs near railway lines, schools and multiple transport access.

Note there is a lot more to cover, the above are not specific recommendations but some ideas. All the places above, I have been too.

I hope this helps.

 

@ORAC

It may be worth starting a new thread. Great info

 

Good info..point #8- the which LGA to buy... Obviously subjective to wants and needs...but I'd concur with your recommendation of bcc for the main reason that the bcc will get most of the jobs (and presumably the high value ones as well) in the future. A recent study posted on this forum predicted almost half of all Brisbane jobs growth to be in and around the city...in my view...that is the main reason to buy there. Sydney and Mel have both showed us the influence of jobs on the RE market.
Going fwd, on a trend basis, Brisbane will be no different.

 

A house within 5km for 500k? Maybe southside? North is 500k for 10-12km in need of a reno

 

You can buy a unit/flat for $500k within 5km but would not be able to buy a house. For example, Norman Park / Coorparoo average for a house would be $800K but a good 4/2/2 is over $1m, Greenslopes maybe $750K plus, Annerley (small houses) $700K plus, West End $1m plus (if you can find a house). You have to remember that these are the prices you pay like West of Sydney now, but you're inner Brisbane. The same proximity to Sydney would be in the $2m - $5m range.

Totally agree with @JDP1 - that jobs growth is still Brisbane CBD (financial services, legal, engineering, IT, high govt positions, executives, specialists, knowledge based jobs, entrepreneurs) are there, and so this drives prices like anywhere else. If a person can buy into New Farm, Paddington, Ascot, Chelmer, Hawthorne - they will, or if they want big acreage out in Brookfield / Pullenvale / Bridgeman Downs (some parts), Samford Valley or Burbank - they will. However, the trick is to find the slightly under valued suburbs. I have noted the trend into hip inner suburbs like New Farm and Bulimba, perhaps more than some of the traditional ones of late.

Another example, would be that Ashgrove / Alderley / Newmarket as they become more expensive, people went to Enoggera / Everton Park / Michelton. As Holland Park becomes more expensive, then look at Mt Gravatt / Upper Mt G, Tarragindi, Carina, Mansfield etc.

So if you are able to buy a house as close to the CBD as you can afford, it should have long term growth even if it trickles along (sure trophy properties have there ups and downs) but good solid properties should do OK.

For Brisbane LGA pretty much most of the suburbs are good, ones that were considered not so many years ago have come a long way!

I will consider a new thread and further update the write-up as a downloadable pdf.

 

Nothing there either for 500k.
Sub 500k the closest Southside suburbs to the CBD would have to be
Rocklea 9km, median approximately $380k. One of the most flood affected suburbs in Brisbane. Next cheapest would probably be somewhere like Hemmant, 11km from the CBD with a median of $471k.

 

I would stick with a house with either good land content or good zoning. Moorooka is within your budget for entry level properties in that area. Also Mount Gravatt and surrounding suburbs are proving to be pretty popular and are showing some good growth at the moment, heaps of people turning up to inspections..

 

Incredible feedback guys. Thank you so much.

ORAC that's given me so much to work with

Budget can be extended a fraction and by reading the above perhaps I should go that road.

I also like the follow the jobs theory and subscribe to that. As I said I'm not really looking to grossly outperform here. If I can just pick a decentish area which will steadily grow over a long term horizon then I'm happy.

I might do some research then report back with some more questions/thoughts - there's a lot to take in from the posts above

 

House on 300m2 in Greenslopes will go for close to 500K currently on realestate.com.au.

 

Sounds good. Build up

 

@ORAC Thanks for that analysis. 1st time poster here and still sitting back trying to research as much as i can before i take the big first step. Obviously i'm not adding to much to this thread so apologies, just wanted to say thanks for sharing your thoughts!

I'm super keen on Brisbane for the long term and still trying to suss it all out. At the moment i'm stuck on the North Side in and around Chermside and the surrounds but also haven't ruled out going further and spending less around Kallangur. As many have said, everyone's journey and strategy is different as we are all in different positions in our lives and want different results. I'm slowly sifting through everything to help me map that strategy out!