Sydney is not as un-affordable?

Discussion in 'Property Market Economics' started by Noobieboy, 2nd Feb, 2019.

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Sydney is affordable?

  1. Very affordable

    6 vote(s)
    8.7%
  2. Somewhat affordable

    14 vote(s)
    20.3%
  3. Neither

    5 vote(s)
    7.2%
  4. Somewhat unaffordable

    12 vote(s)
    17.4%
  5. Very unaffordable

    32 vote(s)
    46.4%
  1. Noobieboy

    Noobieboy Well-Known Member

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    A lot of people (including myself) believe Sydney is becoming expensive to live in.
    I found this great map, that shows Sydney is not that bad compared to its peers like London, SAn Francisco, Shanghai and so on. Map is here. In fact, Sydney is CBD is 128 in the world from "affordability point" and Western Sydney is affordable at 574!

    111111.jpg
     
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  2. Sackie

    Sackie Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    What makes Sydney unaffordable for many is their entitlement attitude of where and what they must buy. I've been hearing Sydney is unaffordable long before the current boom cycle.

    You can still buy 2 bedroom 1 parking units 12km from the CBD for 500k.
     
    Last edited: 3rd Feb, 2019
  3. Noobieboy

    Noobieboy Well-Known Member

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    That is true. I was surprised to see that majority of Chinese cities are unaffordable. I have been told so by a lot of my friends and coworkers from China. But I written it off as entitled attitude as well. Turns out, nope, these cities are expensive to survive in...
     
  4. jprops

    jprops Well-Known Member

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    I think the post was about cost of living more generally. Obviously, to some degree sydney must be affordable, as there are people managing to afford it.

    A better question might be, is the city affordable enough to support a diverse range of people and occupations.
     
  5. Sackie

    Sackie Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Yep, just replying from a property pov

    With regards to diverse ppl being able to afford to live in Sydney, well seems so. Doesn't seem to be short of all walkes of life around the joint when I go out.
     
  6. Noobieboy

    Noobieboy Well-Known Member

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    It seems the city is affordable enough. They compared a number of locations in Sydney. Obviously, the wild west was affordable. The issue with Sydney is clear when you compare it to some of European capitals.

    If you look at Berlin or Paris (ignore London for now), the affordable and unaffordable pockets are distributed throughout the city. This way the haves mix better with the have nots, it doesn't create such an obvious divide as in Sydney. Sydney "latte" line is an interesting thing.
     
  7. Angel

    Angel Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    When you click on Central Business District (wt?) it brings up Western Sydney. Let's face it, Western Sydney is where the normal people on normal incomes live.
     
  8. Noobieboy

    Noobieboy Well-Known Member

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    @Angel dear, have you forgotten your glasses? :p Try zooming in, whole world of possibilities opens up.
    111111.jpg
     
  9. Sackie

    Sackie Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    In terms of REA , alot of cities in China have boomed. I've realised returns of over 100% in 6 years or so. But the thing about China is most people get alot of help from their families . Many even buy apartments for their kids.
     
    Last edited: 3rd Feb, 2019
  10. Noobieboy

    Noobieboy Well-Known Member

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    CBD = 71% of income to rent
    Easter suburbs = 56% of income to rent
    Inner west = circa 50% of income to rent
    Western Sydney = 32% of income to rent
     
  11. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Well-Known Member

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    Yes, provided expectations are realistic.

    I know of property owners with houses/semis etc in very good suburbs with rents at the bottom end of the market. They are very affordable, 2-3 bedrooms and in close to original condition. Non-main road locations, near shops, schools & regular transport to the city.

    I have checked the most recent lettings for some of these and they are still below $700/wk near Cremorne. They have recently had a coat of paint, but have 20+ year old kitchens & 1970's bathrooms.

    These are rare (isolated examples) but still contribute to the stats for average rents in at area.

    Most of these places are in cotton wool until a developer makes a reasonable offer.
     
    Last edited: 3rd Feb, 2019
  12. Angel

    Angel Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Oops, no, I missed the zoom buttons. :oops:

    The data makes a LOT more sense now. This also explains why I couldn't find Paris
     
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  13. hammer

    hammer Well-Known Member

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    500k for a 2br is still too much for someone starting out.

    Once you factor in rates, body corp etc it comes to a bit over $600 a week.

    Doable if you're on over 80k....
    Dangerous if you're on anything less.
     
  14. Gockie

    Gockie Problem solver Premium Member

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    I guess the current low interest rates is the saving grace.
    My first home loan in 2005 was for a 200k loan and I think the interest rate was not too far off double the current interest rate. I was on about 45k.... That was really hard, couldn't get ahead.
     
    Last edited: 3rd Feb, 2019
  15. Sackie

    Sackie Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    I guess it also depends how much deposit you're putting in. Can always buy further than 12km from the CBD . At 23km away you can get 2 bedders for 400k. If that's still too expensive for folks then time to improve your income/spending habits and or leave Sydney imho.
     
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  16. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Well-Known Member

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    Or at 17km (by road) - linky @ $375k
     
  17. Oliver

    Oliver Well-Known Member

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    The difference with other major cities is that the commute is much shorter as public transport infrastructure are much more developed. Who wants to live 20km from the CBD if they work in the CBD? Who wants to spend 1h± commuting?
    So if you want to stay within 1h Max of commute, yes Sydney is still expensive unfortunately.
     
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  18. Eric Wu

    Eric Wu Mortgage Broker Business Plus Member

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    Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou, these mega cities are not only affordable for ordinary ppl, there are actually well beyond "middle-class" reach, what ppl often find is that families from both sides are contributing large amount of deposit for their kids to be able to afford to buy. even these kids bought the apartments, the repayments are still huge........ :(

    for families already live in these cities for many generations, there are different stories.
     
  19. Noobieboy

    Noobieboy Well-Known Member

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    A lot of cities do suffer from transport issues though. Lets compare!
    All departures 8AM weekday. All picked to be more or less within short commute to rolling stock.

    London: 20KM commute from Epsom to City = 1h23m
    2121544.jpg

    Berlin: 20KM commute from Falkensee to City = 1h20m
    1212121.jpg

    Moscow: 20KM commute from Khimki to City = 1h
    Moscow.jpg


    Sydney: 20KM commute from Merrylands to City = 1h
    Sydney.jpg

    Brisbane: 20KM commute from Lawnton to City = just under 1h
    Bris.jpg

    Paris: 20KM commute from Beauchamp to City = just under 1h
    Paris.jpg

    Seems to me all cities are comparable. In fact Australian cities seem to do well. Berlin and London are the worst!
     
  20. Noobieboy

    Noobieboy Well-Known Member

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    That is exactly what I have been told. I don't think this is sustainable. I have seen historically a couple of places where prices become runaway due to economic boom, and this quickly reverses after the boom tapers off. Tokyo, Moscow, Dublin and Spain are examples that come to mind.

    [​IMG]
     
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