Join Australia's most dynamic and respected property investment community

Subdivision with granny flat

Discussion in 'Development' started by htopg, 10th Sep, 2015.

  1. htopg

    htopg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    23rd Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    202
    Location:
    Sydney
    In many articles about granny flat, there is the following statement:
    "Granny flats cannot exist on strata title, subdivided or community title property."

    What does "subdivided title property" mean?
    Does it means that I cannot buy a property on a sub-divisible land, subdivide it and then put one granny flat on each of the subdivided land?

    Does anyone has experience on subdivision + 2 granny flats?

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. thatbum

    thatbum Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    902
    Location:
    Perth, WA
    Yeah, I'm doing one right now.

    I wouldn't read too much into the wording of some random article in lieu of actual planning regulations.

    For example, my pair of GFs are on a pair of survey strata lots after I subdivided them. So the article is already wrong on two points. (In WA anyway).
     
  3. Propertunity

    Propertunity Exclusive Real Estate Buyers Agent Business Member

    Joined:
    19th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    1,235
    Location:
    NSW
    In NSW it means that you cannot build a granny flat and then sub-divide it off the main house block and sell with a separate title.

    If you had say a 1,200m2 block you could sub-divide that into 2 x 600m2 blocks and then build a house + granny flat on each new 600m2 block and that would be fine. But the house & the granny flat stay on one title.
     
  4. htopg

    htopg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    23rd Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    202
    Location:
    Sydney
    By the way, this is in NSW.

    So theoretically, I can do the following?
    1. build a granny flat (that will fall into front lot after subdivision)
    2. subdivide it into 2 lots (front lot contains original house + granny flat)
    3. build a house in back lot
    4. build a granny flat in back lot
     
  5. Propertunity

    Propertunity Exclusive Real Estate Buyers Agent Business Member

    Joined:
    19th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    1,235
    Location:
    NSW
    In theory, yes.
     
  6. TwoDogs

    TwoDogs Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    25th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    55
    Location:
    Sydney
    This was once mentioned by Brazen on SS, the rules say once built there is no further subdivision regardless of which lot the GF ends up on. It's not just about the GF not having its own title. His advice was do the subdivision first, then build the GFs.

    Edit. Found the link

    http://somersoft.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1141951&postcount=9
     
    Last edited: 11th Sep, 2015
    htopg likes this.
  7. AndrewTDP

    AndrewTDP Urban Planning Consultant Business Member

    Joined:
    1st Jul, 2015
    Posts:
    765
    Location:
    Newcastle
    Correct. You can build a granny flat on subdivided land, or subdivide the land that a house and granny flat are located on (provided they meet the minimum lot size etc), but you can never subdivide off the granny flat from the main house.

    The legislative definition is that a granny flat is a secondary dwelling - that is, a dwelling that can only exist in relationship with a primary dwelling.
     
  8. htopg

    htopg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    23rd Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    202
    Location:
    Sydney
    Ok, the original plan is a NO-GO:
    1. build a granny flat (that will fall into front lot after subdivision)
    2. subdivide it into 2 lots (front lot contains original house + granny flat)
    3. build a house in back lot
    4. build a granny flat in back lot

    Modified plan:
    1. subdivide it into 2 lots
    2. build a granny flat in front lot
    3. build a house in back lot
    4. build a granny flat in back lot
     
  9. AndrewTDP

    AndrewTDP Urban Planning Consultant Business Member

    Joined:
    1st Jul, 2015
    Posts:
    765
    Location:
    Newcastle
    The first plan still works.
    You can subdivide to form 2 lots provided the house and granny flat remain in the same lot (and you meet the minimum lot size etc).
     
  10. neK

    neK Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    1,266
    Location:
    Sydney
    Here's a real life example executed by a friend of mine - it was done in Sydney.

    1. Buy house
    2. Subdivide
    3. Build House + Granny Flat (sharing common wall)

    1 property to 3 properties.
    2 lots of council rates
    2 lots of land tax assessments
    3 rental incomes
     
  11. htopg

    htopg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    23rd Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    202
    Location:
    Sydney
    I am confused.
    http://somersoft.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1141951&postcount=9 said that "If there is granny flat, then no subdivision".
     
  12. htopg

    htopg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    23rd Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    202
    Location:
    Sydney
    No granny flat for the original house?
    Thanks for sharing.

    uyR ;-)
     
  13. neK

    neK Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    1,266
    Location:
    Sydney
    Not sure of the size of the land. But it wasn't possible to fit 2 houses + 2 granny flats without demolishing the existing house.

    The existing house has very little backyard as it stands. Most the wasted space is actually in the front yard, but you can't do much about that due to front setback anyway.
     
  14. AndrewTDP

    AndrewTDP Urban Planning Consultant Business Member

    Joined:
    1st Jul, 2015
    Posts:
    765
    Location:
    Newcastle
    It is unclear in the legislation, but the intent is that you cannot create a subdivision where the granny flat stands alone.

    It is more clear cut to do the second option, but the first can (and has) been carried out before.
     
  15. QbiK Evolution

    QbiK Evolution Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    17th Jul, 2015
    Posts:
    117
    Location:
    Perth
    I have a question for you I have an IP that is around 650m2, currently it is not subdividable with zoning at r20. My plan was to build a granny flat in the rear of the block it is a corner block. There is talk of zoning changes however they are said to be at least 3 years away if the zoning then changes to the proposed r40 would I be able to split this block up into 3 and have a 2bed 70m2 house on a separate title. It makes no sense to me that the granny flat can't be split if it abides by all relevant rcodes.? Sorry I'm in Perth by the way.
     
  16. Westminster

    Westminster Tigress at Tiger Developments Business Member

    Joined:
    13th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    2,959
    Location:
    Perth
    Yes you could do this. We've discussed it previously a little where it can be a viable option to use the GF as part of a future triplex if you place it well on the block.
    For example moridogs granny flat is in an area that currently can't be subdivided but one day might and so she has done it so it can be sliced off and titled.
     
  17. QbiK Evolution

    QbiK Evolution Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    17th Jul, 2015
    Posts:
    117
    Location:
    Perth
    Brilliant thanks for the reply Westminster.
     
  18. Tenex

    Tenex Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    14th Aug, 2015
    Posts:
    158
    Location:
    Sydney
    I would imagine the idea of a granny flat is that there is always a main house and therefore it cant be subdivided from the main house (hence the name granny flat). on the other hand if land is sub-dividable and you have space for a granny flat then at least in NSW other than going through a private certifier you wont even need to do anything else.
     
  19. Fungus

    Fungus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    102
    Location:
    Sydney
    I'm thinking of doing something similar in Logan.

    Property on a 690sqm lot. Thinking of building a granny flat, and possibly sub-dividing that. Or sub-dividing then building granny flat.

    However, the minimum lot is 350sqm for the zoning the property is in. Is there any chance council will make an exception for the land being 5sqm short?
     
  20. QbiK Evolution

    QbiK Evolution Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    17th Jul, 2015
    Posts:
    117
    Location:
    Perth
    Wouldn't you be better off building another house I'f the property is subdividable now but? I've heard people bending the rules when it's so close you just might need to bend over backwards for some of their other requests.