Join Australia's most dynamic and respected property investment community

Subdivision in Logan

Discussion in 'Development' started by eggnog, 15th Nov, 2015.

  1. eggnog

    eggnog Active Member

    Joined:
    22nd Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    36
    Location:
    All over the place
    Thought I might start a diary of my subdivision in Logan, it's in Queensland for all you southerners ;)

    Hoping to achieve 2 things from this thread - get guidance solving problems I encounter and so that others can learn from this journey.

    So where we at right now. Application has been lodged with council. Its been processed and council have replied back with a draft development conditions report. Only real issue flagged by council was the handling of stormwater. I am looking at collecting the stormwater into tanks (cheaper) instead of running it through underground stormwater pipes. Original feaso was on stormwater pipes so if I can get approval for tanks it will be a nice little extra to the take home profit. So its looking very promising that DA will be granted.

    So the next stage would be to start looking into operational works. This bit is kinda freaking me out so any help would be hugely appreciated. I haven't done something like this before and i'm a bit lost on how to tackle it. Any advice on where to start or who to approach? A handy facts sheet on steps to follow would be most appreciated :D I'd rather not hand this over to someone to project manage. I enjoy learning and doing this sort of stuff and would much prefer if someone in the know just tells me what to do and I go and do it.
     
    LeonW and Subodh Shirodkar like this.
  2. D.T.

    D.T. Adelaide Property Manager Business Member

    Joined:
    13th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    5,596
    Location:
    Adelaide, SA
    Great, looking forward to hearing about this.

    Hopefully you share some numbers and photos in due course
     
  3. eggnog

    eggnog Active Member

    Joined:
    22nd Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    36
    Location:
    All over the place
    Hi DT. Most definitely. Although I don't think i'll share the purchase price until after everything is done and dusted and I have the final profit in hand (or loss)
     
  4. kristaje

    kristaje Member

    Joined:
    22nd Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    21
    Location:
    Hong Kong (for now)
    @eggnog can you share a bit more of the project? is it a house on big land and you want to subdivide its backyard, or vacant land? would be interested in the feasibility numbers too, if you're comfortable sharing it. thanks.
     
  5. eggnog

    eggnog Active Member

    Joined:
    22nd Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    36
    Location:
    All over the place
    Hiya Kristaje. Its a house on big land.

    I'll do better than posting a feaso. I'll show actual numbers as they come up. And at the end i'll draft a spreadsheet with everything on it so all can see how it went.
     
    MattADL, kristaje and aussieB like this.
  6. RetireRich101

    RetireRich101 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    1,312
    Location:
    Sydney
    it's good to see a development/subdivision post for Brisbane, whether splitter or small-medium scale. The high dev/sub cost in Brisbane puts alot of people off for that reason.

    subscribe;)
     
  7. kristaje

    kristaje Member

    Joined:
    22nd Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    21
    Location:
    Hong Kong (for now)
    Sounds great @eggnog. I'm following this thread with interest. All the best.
     
  8. eggnog

    eggnog Active Member

    Joined:
    22nd Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    36
    Location:
    All over the place
    Town planner rang today. Never met him but he sounds like a young fella.

    Anywho, he mentioned he had a chat with the civil engineer and confirmed that both town planner and civil are happy with the council's draft report. So I have given formal approval for the town planner to reply back to council accepting the conditions. In about a weeks time we should have formal DA.

    Thoughts on the process. I'm actually quite surprised how quickly DA has been granted. I always had a preconceived idea that the DA process was a long and lengthy one. Application was lodge into council on the 20th Oct. In about a months time we were able to get DA. No doubt making sure everything was dotted and crossed before lodging helped a lot. Saves time not having to go backwards and forwards between parties. Not sure if this timeframe was actually quick or slow. Maybe others who have done subdivisions can comment. I should also mention that prior to lodgement 2-3 weeks were spent surveying, drafting engineering layout plans and preparing council application.

    Following is probably what most of you want to know. Civil engineering costs to draw up plans were $3,135. Town planner fees were $2,900. Council application fees were $3,230. Surveyors costs were $1,760.

    Will update once application has a big red approved rubber stamped on them. Till then this little investor won't be counting his chickens.
     
    Last edited: 17th Nov, 2015
  9. RetireRich101

    RetireRich101 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    1,312
    Location:
    Sydney
    what was the subdivision? reconfigure 1 into 2? keep existing house? are you up for the infrastructure fee because there will be a new dwelling involved? even you created a vacant land and onsell, you still have to paid the infra fee, no?
     
  10. eggnog

    eggnog Active Member

    Joined:
    22nd Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    36
    Location:
    All over the place
    Hiya RetireRich. Unfortunately I can't keep existing house. It's smack bang in the middle and there's no way we can set up the boundaries without demolishing it.

    It's larger than a 1 into 2. Did a splitter earlier this year which turned out OK. Wanted to do something larger this time around to build on the skills and knowledge I gained from that experience so I took on this project.
     
  11. RetireRich101

    RetireRich101 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    1,312
    Location:
    Sydney
    the splitter you did earlier this year, you would be paying 1 set of infra fees that is about 22-28k right?
     
  12. eggnog

    eggnog Active Member

    Joined:
    22nd Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    36
    Location:
    All over the place
    Incorrect.

    Here in QLD (not sure about other states), when we say splitters we specifically mean a property that has 2 lot numbers but only 1 title. Since the property already has 2 individual lot numbers we do not have to deal with council whatsoever. So no infrastructure fees payable.

    In order to get the 2nd title (so that you can treat each lot independantly) you just need to go to the titles office and register the 2nd title. It'll cost you 400 odd bucks. You can then technically sell the lots off individually. Mind you, a normal person wouldn't buy the lots since there is no services attached. If you want to capture the lions share of buyers i'd recommend attaching services like water and sewer before selling off the lots.

    When we say subdivision, ie: 1 into 2, then we mean going through council and having to pay the infrastructure charges.

    Hope this helps.
     
  13. RetireRich101

    RetireRich101 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    1,312
    Location:
    Sydney
    Thanks for the clarification. Initially when you said " did a splitter.." I thought you meant you reconfigure 1 into 2.

    Correct when you bought a splitter that is already on 2 lots then no infra fee.
     
    Andrew H likes this.
  14. RetireRich101

    RetireRich101 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    1,312
    Location:
    Sydney
    So this new proposed, is it reconfigure 1 into 2, so when you add 1x28k into your dev cost, it's about 40k. That's pretty good but I remembered someone told to allow 60-70k for recon 1into2. Is it water/ sewer connection you also need?

    Are you building or sell off the land
     
  15. eggnog

    eggnog Active Member

    Joined:
    22nd Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    36
    Location:
    All over the place
    nah, it's more than 1 into 2. There are much more costs involved. What I listed above is just to get the DA. Then there are holding costs, operational costs, infrastructure costs as you have said, consultant fees, etc. I'll be listing them all in due course as it pertains to this project.
     
    Beanie Girl and RetireRich101 like this.
  16. eggnog

    eggnog Active Member

    Joined:
    22nd Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    36
    Location:
    All over the place
    Looks like i can finally count my chickens. Got DA yesterday and funilly enough it does have a big fat red stamp on it.

    Also, a developer today expressed interest in purchasing the site. He found it through council's website. Didnt know people could do that. I'll have to remember this as another possible avenue for sourcing sites. Learn something new every day :)
     
    Leo2413 and norwoodman like this.
  17. norwoodman

    norwoodman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    20th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    263
    Location:
    Brisbane, QLD
    Great news, @eggnog. Might I ask which suburb you're subdividing in?
     
  18. eggnog

    eggnog Active Member

    Joined:
    22nd Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    36
    Location:
    All over the place
    Well, I've been quite slack regarding this subdivision. I haven't really done much and to be honest don't think much will be happening coming up to Christmas.

    What little i've done i'll share. Have tried contacting the real estate agent I was previously in talks with during this whole journey. He seems to be ignoring me (not sure why exactly) so now I need to find a new agent. Will approach one of the local big agencies this weekend. Lost a few weeks here.

    Have teed up my solicitor to handle registrations of easements, draft pre-sales documents and conveyancing of sales. Have used them a few times before and they are a regular on this site :)

    Also had a meeting with the civil engineer yesterday. I must say it was very worthwhile. For all those newbies out there I would highly recommend finding a good civil engineer, recruit them into your team and bounce ideas and questions off them for all potential deals. Outcomes from that meeting:

    My timeline has grown a bit. Was intending to complete this subdivision by March-April. It's still possible but a more realistic completion date would be June-July as advised by my civil engineer. Would've known this if I had talked to them about timelines at the beginning of the project. Gonna increase my holding costs so a very costly lesson to be learnt here.

    I was also able to get more figures to plug into my budgeting sheet making it more realistic. Very happy with that. Once again, if people talk to there civil engineers during the due dilligence stage prior to purchasing a site then you'll have a more realistic idea of costs involved. I'll be posting my figures as I incur them.

    And probably the most important thing I got out of the meeting was a better understanding of the whole subdivision process, what's involved and who I should approach for each section.
     
    Beanie Girl likes this.
  19. eggnog

    eggnog Active Member

    Joined:
    22nd Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    36
    Location:
    All over the place
    Another update.

    Had a meeting with my surveyor to further firm up prices and get a better idea of where they fit into the whole subdivision process.

    Have also applied to council to find out a more realistic figure for my contributions. I notice they cap the amount payable so my figures on my budget coster should come down significantly - gotta be happy with that :)

    Also had a talk with a new real estate agent to market these lots. Now i'm left standing at a crossroad. Based on estimate prices from the real estate agent I can do either 1 of 2 things:
    • Sell the property as is with the new DA. I'll walk away with roughly 80k profit excluding taxes. I know it's not much but the ROE is pretty darn good - about 60% for 5 months work (120k total expenses).
    • Other option is to complete subdivision. It will require contributing a lot more cash into the deal to undertake civil works and pay councils contribution and will leave my money tied up for a further 6 months.
    hmmm, what are peoples thoughts. Complete the subdivision and learn a lot from it or take the quick cash and start again on a new subdivision?
     
  20. RetireRich101

    RetireRich101 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    1,312
    Location:
    Sydney
    Hi eggnog,

    I just reread this post from start, maybe I missed out on something as I am still confused on what you will be doing

    It maybe helpful to provide in your post, say for example:
    • Total land lot size ABCm2.
    • Dwelling smack in the middle
    • House will be need to demolished
    • DA to reconfigure 1 into 3 lots, ie 3 x XYZm2, all lot have street frontage
    • End result is vacant land of ABCm2 each.
     
    Leo2413 likes this.