Solicitors who are successful property investors?

Discussion in 'Legal Issues' started by ZenSapphire, 10th Nov, 2019.

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  1. Terry_w

    Terry_w Lawyer, Tax Adviser and Mortgage broker in Sydney Business Member

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    Lawyers deal in contracts, structures, tax, estate planning etc in their professional jobs. These are different to investing but closely related.

    Might be different asking a financial advisor if they invest. Or a lawyer if they have used trust structures to hold assets or a tax agent who claims deductions
     
  2. Paul@PAS

    Paul@PAS Tax, Accounting + SMSF + All things Property Tax Business Plus Member

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    Could be a gun prosecutor and know jack about anything civil related.

    One of the key issues that fails the accounting profession (and others) is not the technical stuff. Its the calibre of people who must use their technical skills, their experience and then provide plain english advice. Heaps of professional advisers fail in client communication. Truly listening to and speaking to a client about the key issues in a manner that is clear and allows them to make informed choice.
     
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  3. Curious2019

    Curious2019 Well-Known Member

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    Some of the best investors in property I have met have been tradies. They work 6-7 days a week, 14-16 hrs a day and have great networks with other trades. They have low fixed expenses because they work too much to spend any money. They buy properties under median value in good areas and fix them them up/add value very cost effectively using their own trade or networks. They rent them out and never sell. Their version of self managed super lol not saying all tradies are like this, but I’ve met some very switched on tradies that have down very well for themselves in their businesses and by investing in property.

    In comparison, I used to work in tax for clients that were high income earning white collar professionals, judges, lawyers, doctors and dentists. It was interesting to compare, often the white collar professionals lived in much more expensive areas so spent a much larger portion of their income on income tax, rent/mortgage payments, multiple kids in expensive private schools and expensive hobbies like golf, race horses and wives with expensive tastes. Often, despite the high incomes, there wasn’t much disposable income left over to invest in property (or much else). Sometimes they used margin loans to buy shares, usually though with mediocre returns.

    I think it successful investing often comes down to aligning your passion and interests with investment opportunities.

    I don’t mean to offend with my generalisations, this has just been some of my personal experiences!
     
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  4. willair

    willair Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    I know a few Solicitors ,and i think the 80--20 rule does not apply within the legal system the one's that make serious money have that win--at--all--costs--attitude ,combine that with discipline and exercise ..

    One i know my age,own's a corner block 10000 cars per hour inner south--side Brisbane that's his his office base ..Also has several six pack brick walk-up flats and a holding in BHP that his Father bought over 70 years ago plus several others in the top 50 ASX listed..He would be in the 5 percent..
    Most of his work comes from drink --drug driving charges and property related and serial litigants ,he's too smart to go into criminal law..

    Another i know worked all his life for the public defender,rented all his life ,public schools from day one new cars every 2 years --overseas 2 times a year with apart from super and a lotto win has zero assets or shareholdings..

    I know others higher up in the legal system and very few are wealthy ,and all understand the weather does not affect the business model,and not a capital --gain business just a simple cash generative business ..

    When you look at both those hard working stress out people,the person who employs over 5 people worth over 10 mill unencumbered has the thinking ability that is way above what he neccessarily expresses..

    The one working for the government just goes with the flow ..
     
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  5. ZenSapphire

    ZenSapphire Well-Known Member

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    Yes this is a fairer viewpoint and makes sense. For the financial advisor, I would be interested in the performance of their investments.

    Completely agree with this. Communication is what the other person does with what you say.

    I do wonder if it's the discipline and hard work from those hours that contributes to them being sound investors in addition to their trade being very practical in property?

    Do you think the environment they are in and the people that they are surrounded with have much of an impact on this?
     
  6. willair

    willair Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Do you think the environment they are in and the people that they are surrounded with have much of an impact on this?..

    Yes it would be 12 out of ten and when you look at the one with a business record financially ,that lets him make decisions across a bigger spectrum of opportunity once you put aside the tribalism factor..

    The other one is quite different as the work-load just walks in the door each day,some within that system become single-minded and full of purpose and that's where the competition ends and the slow reality of consequence suddenly unfolds..
     
  7. Curious2019

    Curious2019 Well-Known Member

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    I would say the hard work ethic would play a big role. Their skills being very practical in property definitely also helps enhance their investments.
    The value of the barter system is also great - my partner has done electrical work for mates in exchange for other services, i.e roof plumbing. I’ve also done bookkeeping in exchange for another business doing estimating services for my partners business. Plus is always great to have mates to borrow/swap tools with.

    If we ever get quotes for trade works, we can usually call someone we know to make sure it’s a reasonable quote and that we aren’t getting ripped off. This has helped me avoid a $10k quote for a job I ended up getting for $3.5k!
     
  8. Property Guts

    Property Guts Well-Known Member

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    On a daily basis, i work in close proximity to lawyers and tradies. So when i compare the both, i note;
    *) the lawyers are great readers, they instinctively read contracts, before they sign
    *) they manage risk, so by nature they are risk adverse and pessimistic-always-looking- at-worst-case scenarios.

    Both 2 factors above, from my observations, means lawyers rarely struggle to get a loan, but they avoid risk, so don't extend themselves. Banks love them. Yes, plenty of successful property investors with legal background.

    Meanwhile, the tradies read very little, sign all sorts of stuff without understanding it, are appalling project managers. From my observations, tradies mostly struggle to get loans because they can't pull the paper work together and their due diligence is absent or minimal. Yes, plenty of successful property investors with tradie background.

    Conclusion. as in posts above, profession not relevant to total success.
     
  9. MWI

    MWI Well-Known Member

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    Totally agree with this comment.
    Many years ago I was invited for a breakfast seminar and I am not kidding but from about 20-30 people in the room around 80-90% had IT background.
    My background too is from IT, what is it with us, we like charts or too much analysis or what?:eek:
    Also, long time ago a bank manager came to our house to do our refinancing (as sent and recommended by our old accountant). I remember her comment where she said, "I wish everyone that lends money was in your position, you would be surprised what people's net worth is and their profession.". She actually mentioned how a solicitor was in red, yet was on much higher income, yet negative net worth.
    I agree the profession is irrelevant, what makes one a great investor, is their BIG dreams followed by action. What I noted over the years many corporate people prefer to invest into stock market rather than IP (too much work for them) and many are quite comfortable within their profession and life... hence will not take different or huge risks, they just don't like a change that much!
    Also... I don't think many see RE as passive investment.:(
     
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  10. ZenSapphire

    ZenSapphire Well-Known Member

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    I've worked in corporate for the past 12 years or so and have an IT background before moving more into broader roles.

    This is completely overgeneralising things but what I find is:
    1. Many IT people have a bit more headspace to think about things outside of work and they also think, 'well there has to be a better solution to this' such as there has to be a better solution than slaving away at work 10-6 everyday.
    2. Many corporate people in areas outside of IT such as finance, operations, risk, legal, etc use their headspace a lot to solve problems manually and less strategically until they get higher up the food chain. They also often don't like investing in things they don't understand, so unless someone explains property investing to them, it may not come onto their radar.
    What are your thoughts?

    This is a really good point and underutilised in today's society. There should be a platform for this kind of stuff. Does something exist in Australia? I just remembered one.

    I know of Bartercard but have never tried it out before.
    Business Growth Strategies - Learn About Barter Trade | What is Bartercard
     
  11. sash

    sash Well-Known Member

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    accountants, Lawyers and Doctors due to their training are risk averse.....I don't see a lot of these people buy a lot of properties. Surprisingly it is people in IT.....and even simple admin roles who have moved a lot on properties...

    I can even see that with some of the people with legal training on this forum...way over the top on the compliance side...:p
     
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  12. MWI

    MWI Well-Known Member

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    I tend to agree, although I did not have anyone explaining property investing to me. Instead I was looking for alternate incomes and after trying various things, family business, import/export, self-employed, stock trading, etc... I discovered property via reading via books, then it progressed further once I understood the property investing principles.
    I also think the people in point two above you mentioned study a lot, make it a career, hence less willing to take risk, to make major changes, also many prefer to read work related materials to climb the corporate ladder, instead of investing, they outsource that to others like their lifestyle errands too?
    But it is interesting and would be great to know what was the turning point to change direction and then to take risk then to take action?:)
     
  13. Curious2019

    Curious2019 Well-Known Member

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    Hmm, I’ve never heard of barter card but just looked up the link there, love the concept, not quite sure how it works though and there’s a membership fee minimum of $99 per month.. Ive seen another website where people can earn barter hours to trade with each other.. couldn’t find it when I just looked now though.

    We just do it informally within our own network. Works well and saves us all on the tax mans cut!