Crypto Sold my house and put it all into bitcoin.

Like everything else, it is supply and demand.
Demand is dropping.
But demand will still be big. An internet currency is a needed thing.
Bitcoin I think over the long run will have more demand than supply.
But at what sort of price it stabilises at I really dont know. This is the first real bubble bursting. But over time my gut feeling is bitcoin will grow well. In the same way that shares have big drops from time to time but over the long run grow.

 

Once again, it's not new, but it only became a "thing" about 3 years ago:
https://www.google.com/finance/quot...C6mMD4AhUqmFYBHWaBBKsQ-fUHegQICRAX&window=MAX

That's correlate perfectly with global low cash rate ("free money"), COVID, people's panic, FOMO and huge PR machine (all the way up to Elon) to keep pumping how good it is, just keep brining you money into it.

It became a blockhole for fiat money.
Have you ever thought where is ALL this fiat money that people are exchanging for crypto?
Most of the exchanges have no reserves (as can be seen with the folding of many lately, when a margin call is made).
That means someone(s) took all this fiat money to themselves and pocket it.
Why do you reckon any of them will pump it back into the "market" if it goes down?

There will be few who'll be quick (or lucky) enough to pull out fiat money out of it when **** hit the fan, but it'll be money that comes from people who been scammed into joining, not the money that was already put into it.
And for most - it'll be "money gone forever".

 

You keep saying that.
Can you explain why "internet money is needed"?

For what reason normal, law abiding person, need money that is anonymous and without any safeguards (as soon as you sent it - there's no recourse).

 

because people want to do things illegally or privately and because some prefer the idea of currency that is not subject to govt intervention. Others like the idea of no forex.
Its not going to go away. I am absolutely certain of that.
But as for what its price will do, I just dont know where the floor is before it in future starts rising again (but in a more controlled way).

 

Crypto is forex impacted. Unless you happen to hold USD and buy BTC in USD. And use a USD wallet.

How does that differ from the stability and wide use of debit and credit cards and common currency movements where people know what fees and margins are with the stability of knowing that provided a currency remains stable then I know I have $X in my wallet and can choose to buy things anywhere in the world physically and online. I can buy things online like flights & accom. I can walk into a cafe in Bali and buy a plate of food. While I sit in the cafe I can buy things overseas. Crypto is not easier. Its a fiction that hides the huge number of people who feed of it. Its like pixie dust and unicorn poop being traded.

Its like cash... Its pretty widely accepted too. Apart from some dubious currencies that arent well accepted (Zimbabwe) cash is convertable. Both physically and digitally. Govts are what gives stability to currency and financial systems. Many nutters think crypto is some better thing because its different. Its different in many bad ways. The capital instability is its #1 fail.

 

Global money supply is over 40 trillion. Bitcoin is a drop pin the ocean at present levels!

 

Awesome.
Exactly the reason why governments should make it illegal, which in turn will make it worth exactly zero.

You cannot keep an illegal currency that requires network of computers to solve maths problems and without "the masses" putting their life savings in it.
It only sustainable if you have enough greedy people will to keep pump it - and you need large amount of them (hence the aggressive PR everywhere).

Not sure how's that have anything to do with anything.
I was talking about the fiat money people put in crypto. Where is it now? Who's holding it?

 

Whoever sold it to them is holding it! When I sell bitcoin I hold the fiat money from the sale! It’s pretty simple

 

Yep, exactly....
All this "market cap" that people see and believe there's some magic pot where the money sits in, not realising it's a complete BS.
There's no money in BTC. Or any other crypto.
The money is in people's hands and in order for someone to get that money - someone else has to give it to them.

Since the main strategy is to HODL, the ones who has BTC and are happy to stop HODL it - are very happy to take the fiat money instead.
They get rich and get bright bleached laundered fiat money.
How sustainable is a system that works this way?

Basically, there's no guarantee that at any point in the future - your crypto will have any type of backing.
Decentralised and everything.

 

Not sure what you’re getting at! This is how every market in the world works. To sell Tesla stock you need a buyer. To sell a carrot you need a buyer. To sell copper you need a buyer.,
Hate to break it to you also there’s not a honey pot in the bank system. If everyone wants to withdraw the money (backing) isn’t there!

 

Have you seen some common thread in your examples? Hint: it's not not-exists.
When I buy Tesla stock - I buy part of the IP and the assets.
When I buy a carrot - I get something I can eat. If I make a carrot cake - I can sell it on.
If I want to sell copper - I better have copper to sell.

Well, quite apparently, when banks need to pay people and they cannot, there are government guarantee, which is why the governments are forcing banks to have backing.
Heard of bailouts? You might not agree with them, but for the little people who need their money, bailout is the difference between life and death.

Who's gonna bail BTC?
Turns out that government control and centralised currency have some advantages. Only few.

And that's the core of the whole thing: crypto is a Wild West. Every man to their own.
Didn't worked that well before. Even when things were way more local. Not much chances it'll work when it's global and with so many hidden agendas and influencers.

 

When you buy bitcoin you’re buying into the most secure network thats ever existed. Able to send value at the speed of light for near free 24/7. And best of all it has a fixed supply and issuance schedule that is known for the next 120 years.
The government will supposedly guarantee up to 250k. Where will this money come from? That is also another pro of Bitcoin in that it doesn’t need bailouts it’s a free market as it should be

 

This podcast guest gives an excellent explanation of the reason why Bitcoin is an exciting technology:

Bitcoin, The Greatest Money System with Darin Feinstein - WBD494

Make of it what you will.

 

That's a marketing blurb. It's a network that is governed by unknown people with zero accountability.
The code is controlled by a committee of people who mainly stay anonymous and nodes and miners are people with deep enough pockets to run mega farms.
It's long time not the "people's" money running on home PCs. You can still run a node and a miner at home, but your effect on the network is negotiable.

That's before talking about zero-day exploits. I know you'll say it's impossible, but every IT student will tell you that no software is 100% safe.

Not with BTC. Unless you use lighting. And pre-load your lighting from the vvvvveeerrrrryyyyyy slow and expensive BTC network. Cause everybody loves loadable cards.

Sure. You'll have max of 21,000,000 BTC.
Or 21,000,000,000 1/10 BTC.
Or 21,000,000,000,000 1/100 BTC.
Or Or 21,000,000,000,000 1/1000 BTC.

We can play this game all day long. Until we get to the 8th decimal point (that's along of BTCs)
The "limited supply" is another marketing hype. Since it can be divided, that's no meaning to the 21M limit.

It's will come from your local (country, most of the time) society.
It's this strange notions people have: we prefer to help our fellow citizen rather than see them die on the street. So we create governments. I know.... Yuk! Government.
That's until you understand that "government" is basically "us". Not so bad.

Sure. So, just for the sake of argument, if it crashes, and everybody who put all their life saving in this new best every currency, lost everything - they should just jump off a bridge, cause it's free market, you made your decision and now live (or rather die) with them.
An awesome way of thinking. Fit the real agenda behind crypto; it's not about "freedom" or "the good of humanity" - it's all about me me me and greediness.

But I do agree with one thing: if crypto crash, I really don't care what happens to those who gonna lose everything.
If someone is stupid enough to put all their life saving on Black - that's their own problem.

"Darin Feinstein, an early investor in Bitcoin, co-founded Core Scientific, one of the largest Bitcoin mining operations. In this interview, we discuss the revolution of triple-entry accounting, providing 8 billion people property rights and banking, combating FUD, and rapid advances in mining chips."​

Read this and decided I'll save myself 2 hours that I will never get back.
I'm not gonna listen to someone who makes a living out of BTC to tell me why BTC is great.
Pretty much the same reason I don't take astronomy lessons with Mark Sargent.

 

Surely you're not serious here? Anything can be divided. This is like saying a loaf of bread has 20 slices. But if you cut them all in half, there's now 40 slices. Doesn't mean there's more bread though.

I didn't think you'd listen. That's fine, stay in your bubble. I like to remain open minded.

 

Where do I start?
Bitcoin developers aren’t anonymous. There are a lot of contributors as it’s open source. There might be a couple that keep their identity secret but the overwhelming majority are known!

Not sure if you are serious with the divisibility of bitcoin. The percentage you hold of the 21million doesn’t change no matter how many decimal places you want to go! It’s basic maths! It’s the most ridiculous argument I think I’ve seen to the point I’m not sure whether it just trolling! Lol

In a free market you would rely on the kindness and generosity of others through the likes of donation and things like “go fund me”. You know the fact as you pointed out that people like to help others! It’s a major problem today that everyone including companies expect a bail out for making poor decisions and not saving and running efficiently enough during the good times.

 

Once again, and it's very common with people who advocate for crypto, the analogy between something that is totally virtual and has no real value apart from what people put on it and something with real world value.
In your bread analogy, you want the listener to feel the absurd of one taking one loaf and cut it to 2 or 40 cuts and how the 40 cuts won't make it suit more people to eat.
However, you don't eat crypto and it makes no difference at all if you put $10 value on 1 BTC or $10 on 0.0001 BTC.

It means the "21M supply" it smoke and mirrors. It's a PR statement any nothing more. BTC has, just like many other crypto, virtually endless supply. You can "print" as many BTC you'd like by splitting your 1 BTC to as many parts you want.
It'd be a real supply limit if you could only trade in whole BTC.


But that's ok, stay open minded.
Just don't misinform others.

 

Oh.... Open source! The magic word.
Well, I should know.... I work for a company that owns an Open Source product.
Do you know what is the hardest thing is Open Source for organisations? Support and liability.
That's why they buy from us the same product they can use for free.

Does any of the developers (which can be anonymous or not, the fact it's open source means you have no idea who are those people who contribute on GitHub) have any liability to the code they produce?
Can you sue anyone if something goes horribly wrong?

I'll help you - you cannot.
You're on your own.

Now - Open Source is awesome. It drives so much innovation it's not funny. And it's more secure. It better in any way.
But when we're talking about people's money, I'm not sure those who jump on the gravy train knows that no one knows who's the drivers is and if the train crashes - you better have private health insurance to rescue you.

Ok. I got what you meant. I take this back.

This however, is laughable.

"free market you would rely on the kindness and generosity"​

Really? You really believe that's how things work?
Do you really think someone from another country cares about your loss in crypto?

Most of the gofundme campaigns are get donations from locals. It'll be either the very local community (neighbourhood, city) to a bit larger local community (state, country).
That's exactly the reason why local currency works. Cause it's a trust system we have between local people, with official languages, common governments, common laws, common rights etc.

I get that the internet made us feel like the whole world is a little village and some people will feel more aligned to someone from other country than people from their neighbour, but we have a long long long way until this is really true.

Humanity is not even near the position where we are "all in this together".
It's more than just sentiment, the fact that there's such big gaps between life styles across the globe will not allow for untied world.

Crypto does exactly that: it tries to "level the playing field" with one unified currency (which is, again - trust system).
So now you, me and a guy from Nigeria are all support to share the same trust over a currency.

However, the guy from Nigeria will never be able to afford himself the same life style as we do, meaning he will always gonna try to do the only thing he can to "level the field".
Why bother with complex bank transfers that are slowly slowly becoming harder if all you need is to get someone to send you their BTC, or even better - gain control over their private key.

Financial and romantic scams are becoming harder and longer to run.
You need to get someone to get up, get out, go somewhere and lie to someone at a bank or the post. Multiply times.
With crypto - you need way less steps. And as soon as you gained control - it's game over. No way to ever get the money back. It's totally gone. By design. No safeguards. No nothing.

Wonder why BTC is now the official scam and hostage currency....

 

How is this topic not shut down?
So much rubbish and bantering.