Crypto Sold my house and put it all into bitcoin.

Discussion in 'Other Asset Classes' started by Laker, 7th May, 2020.

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  1. Redwing

    Redwing Well-Known Member

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  2. crosek

    crosek Well-Known Member

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    Reading through this thread and it’s clear we are still so early. ~150M users at the moment with adoption running faster then the internet in approx 1997.

    The skeptics will be proven right when the price drops 85%+ and then it will rise again to new all time highs once again, just like it has every other cycle.

    So where is the top? Depends on how much you understand Bitcoin. if you think it’s just gambling then we just had the top.
    If you understand where current global M2 money supply is and where it’s going then we have some room to go.
    If you understand credit risk and bonds, you could easily make a case for $1-10M Bitcoin.

    The truth is, it’s programmed in, Bitcoin has no top because fiat has no bottom.

    But housing is up 20% this year alone, yes, it is keeping up with M2 inflation, so is gold and so is the S&P. Bitcoin is the only asset appreciating vs global M2 expansion.

    It will make sense in the years to come for those who do not wish to spend a few days to understand what Bitcoin is.

    I have been leveraged long via real estate and it has changed my life perspective and goals. Once you really dig deep, it will change the way you see everything.

    ∞/21M
     
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  3. Baker

    Baker Well-Known Member

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    Has an ASX crypto ETF been launched yet?
     
  4. crosek

    crosek Well-Known Member

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    Negative, there are a few waiting for approval in the pipeline.

    You have your usual suspects on international exchanges, GBTC and MSTR is essentially a leveraged BTC ETF lol

    ARK investments also have a few diversified ETF's with heavy BTC exposure. Check out their website, they give out their research for free as well.
     
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  5. Zenith Chaos

    Zenith Chaos Well-Known Member

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    Although I have not purchased bitcoin, the anti-crypto people may just be as delusional as the board of Kodak when digital cameras were invented.
     
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  6. Ronen

    Ronen Well-Known Member

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    Only difference - you cannot buy food with Kodak films.
    You can with money.

    Your analogy will be more accurate if you'd say that the BitCoins guys are like Nikon board believes it'll the only cameras maker in the world in 2025.

    As long as you have many options on the "market" - not one crypto can be the "money of the future".
    And since it's just ones and zeros, with very little investment to make one (unlike cameras), there's always be many. Each one is better then the one before it, that fixes "whole the problems" it's predecessor had.
    But their technologies are not interchangeable and each one has it's own value, based on it's adaption.
    So if you'll go to buy a loaf of bread, the shop will have to display 1,000s of prices, for each coin, or choose a coins they "work with" and if you have other coins, you'll have to change your coins for their and pay some fee for the change.

    Awesome! Sounds like a great way to use money.

    Or, the shop will still display the price based on fiat money, and you "pay" with whatever facility you want (fiat cash, fiat CC, crypto, crypto CC) and pay the fees depend on what you're paying with.
    But since crypto is all about "decentralised non-regulated economy", those who opt to run the network wants to be paid for their work - means fees.
    There's no "central" place who charge fees and pay the network. Everyone who's using the network (aka - you) - have to pay everytime they "use" the network.

    So everytime you buy bread, this transaction cost fees. Those fees can be big or small - depends on how the network is built, and how popular the coin today (no regulation, not control - it's all just market trends - today you're the best, one tweet and you lost all your value).

    Yeah.
    Sounds great.
    I'm sure to sell my house and put it on BitCoin, or Cardano, or Tether, or Polkadot, probably Dogecoin!
     
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  7. Dan Donoghue

    Dan Donoghue Well-Known Member

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    There was a time where you couldn't buy milk in the USA with AUD...... until there was an electronic payment gateway in place which did the conversion on the fly for you (eftpos network).

    I absolutely believe we are not far from being able to pay for everyday products with crypto using a payment gateway which runs through the standard eftpos network. I wouldn't be surprised if a company like Visa teams up with the crypto trading companies like FTX and the like to work something out.

    As new coins come out they are proving to have faster ledger entry times. If this is the infancy of Crypto, I am very keen to see what the landscape looks like in a few years.

    The technology is improving constantly and will continue to get better.
     
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  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    ...or feeless like IOTA ;)

    Every time you buy bread with your card there are transaction fees, the vendor pays them.
     
  9. Valhiem

    Valhiem Active Member

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    Binance and Crypto.com already have Crypto visa cards available, I haven't tried it personally yet but from what I can see they should work in Australia already.
     
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  10. MB18

    MB18 Well-Known Member

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    Why Bitcoin is worthless:
    (Copied from Firstlinks)

    It would be fair to say that we are witnessing one of the most extreme delusions in modern history, measured by the breadth of participation and size. This delusion has some powerful attributes: cult-like behaviour, rebellion against authorities, gambling, break-out technology, a fear of missing out and the madness of crowds.

    You have probably guessed that the prime example of bubbles are cryptocurrencies with Bitcoin being the pin-up. To put Bitcoin into context, if it were a listed company it would be the seventh or eighth most valuable company in the world (depending on the day).

    Devoted followers accuse doubters of not understanding blockchain or the role of cryptocurrencies. Calling out a cult is not popular, particularly when people are making ‘easy’ money. But in times of cult-like behaviour, the most important thing is to stay rational and not be afraid of being unpopular with the crowd.

    ...
     
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  11. Guest

    Guest Guest

    First thing that springs to mind reading this article :D click

    Let me get this straight.. the cryptocurrencies which actually deliver on the unique value proposition of the breakthrough, ownership and exchange of digital assets without a trusted third party, will be worthless? /facepalm.jpg

    If people are buying cryptocurrencies where trusted third parties are custodians for the assets backing them, why would they need a cryptocurrency at all? It would be much faster and cheaper to use a centralised database. Perhaps you would consider a gold backed cryptocurrency if you wanted to move in and out of it, between digital assets, faster or for the convenience of using a shared wallet.

    I have been writing about why gold backed crypto doesn't make sense since 2014 :rolleyes: The truth about "gold backed" cryptocurrencies
     
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  12. MB18

    MB18 Well-Known Member

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    I didn't write the article, I just cut and a paste.

    I believe that the author is merely pointing out that the value of crypto is based on, well.... nothing.

    I dont see what cyrpos unique value proposition is, and the idea of 'trusted third party' I found laughable when the third party is both anonymous and unregulated.

    I do have to agree with the authors comments about the cult like following it has. Afterall, few bitcoin fans are able to accept such nonchalant attitudes as mine for reasons I've never fathomed.

    Just because I dont believe in bitcoin solving any problems I have, it doesn't mean others might. All the power to those who do, Ill leave mine on the table for you.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 10th Oct, 2021
  13. Ronen

    Ronen Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I've expected that will be the respond, however, those networks are working with a highly trusted and regulated banking systems, dealing a regulated and centralised fiat money.

    The whole premise of crypto is the fact it's not regulated and as a result, unstable.
    As such, no exchange network will take the risk of becoming an exchange if they have no way for them to make sure that the crypto they took in the morning, will still worth the same in the evening.
    Then you'll get the insurance companies to insure those exchanges, but with such a high risk - they will have high premiums.

    I suspect the fees will be much higher because of the unstable nature of cryptos.
    Usability means high risk.

    I'm not seeing a situation that crypto will become a stable and predicted currency because of it's whole "decentralised and unregulated" nature.

    Take a look at BitCoin - there's a very small number of wallets who are holding the majority of the coins.
    They are controlling the currency. Some anonymous people (or organisations) have the ability to wipe most of the value of the currency over night.

    You'd say it's not in their interest to do so, but none of you have any idea cause you don't know who they are. It might be very well in their interest to break the whole BitCoin network cause the fallout benefits them more then the money stored in it (for them, it's not even possible to cash on that huge money. As soon as they start dropping it - value will plummet, even if they drop small amounts).

    Would anyone here invest in company shares where they have no idea who are the major shareholders, and have no product?
    I find it totally insane.
     
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  14. Ronen

    Ronen Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, awesome credit card:
    The Crypto.com Visa Card is a prepaid card. Broadly speaking, prepaid cards are the same as debit cards. The difference is that debit cards are linked to your bank account, but prepaid cards need to be topped up. In our case, you can top up using bank account transfers, other credit/debit cards, or cryptocurrency.​

    All it is a digital fiat money wallet that you topup with your crypto account.
    I'm sold!
     
  15. Ronen

    Ronen Well-Known Member

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    The main issue here is "digital assets".
    They do own, trade and exchange digital packets, but they are hardly assets.
    An asset is something of value.

    Currently, the only value in crypto is people's beliefs it holds value.

    Yeah, I know - every currently is a believe system. We believe a $10 note buys us 5 tomatoes.

    However, when you try to create a believe system that has no one to hold accountable, that has no transparency on those who controls it (would it be by holding the most of it's "assets", the ones who run the nodes nor the ones who controls the code [there's a committee, but do you know who are those people and what influence them?]) and it spread across the whole globe (mixing totally different economic systems - first world with third world) - I see very little value in this believe system.

    I'm a big believer in real estate and land due to this exact reason; you cannot trade pieces of paper that has the number 100 on them, but you can trade the cucumbers you grow on your land.
    But if I had to choose between a piece of paper that my neighbour and I agree on as oppose to few bits inside an hardware wallet (that can't be extracted and use without a very specific network of physical machines running a very specific software protocol) that I agreed with people from Zambomba on.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 10th Oct, 2021
  16. Guest

    Guest Guest

    My criticism was directed at it's content, not you personally.

    Unstable in price perhaps, like most assets. However, Bitcoin (for example) has been a very stable network. Show me a bank with Bitcoin's uptime over the past 10 years. Decentralisation leads to a more resilient network and this is another unique benefit of systems without a single point of failure like a bank.

    This is true of any asset. Some assets have more traditional ways we can measure that value, but in all cases this is all externally applied by those who believe that the asset has value or that those controlling it will continue to create value from it.

    What is a gold bar worth beyond it's industrial utility?
    What is a collector's car worth beyond the scrap metal or basic functionality?
    What is a company worth that's losing billions of dollars every year, but has the potential to be a global leader in lucrative future markets?
    Something producing a cash return / yield may feel like it has more tangible value, but this can change on a dime... look at what happened to property in mining towns.

    Anything and everything, including fiat or cryptocurrencies are only worth what someone is prepared to exchange for it. If you don't understand why others are applying value to crypto, then don't buy it, but I think we are going to see it continue to flourish and disrupt (this is already happening in the art market with NFTs).
     
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  17. Ronen

    Ronen Well-Known Member

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    I referred to price.
    I'm in the business of uptime and critical systems. I know exactly what decentralised systems benefits are for HA.

    I'd argue that most assess are actually much more stable due to the fact they are backed by..... themselves.
    Something that is based by believe system cannot, by definition, be stable.

    Again, that's simply untrue.
    Property, consumables, hardware, minerals etc - are not hold value just because we believe they worth their value.
    People need to eat food, live in houses and stuff.

    You cannot do anything with bitcoin text strings.

    That's exactly it's worth - it's being used in so many applications. Real world ones.


    During it's life, it's moving people from place to place. That's it's value.

    Depends on what the company does. Same have no value - just like BitCoin and are high risk and some have value based on what they make.

    As long as economy has enough basic stuff going on.
    Speculative "assess" only works when there's luxury. Hungry people don't buy BitCoin.
     
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  18. Guest

    Guest Guest

    We've already covered this and you seemingly don't understand...
    Just because you don't don't value it's USP, doesn't mean others don't.

    The primary value of a collector's car is not derived from it's ability to move people from place to place... some people pay extraordinary amounts of money for the body of a car which doesn't have that ability.

    Most of gold's value is not applied as a result of it's industrial utility.
     
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  19. Ronen

    Ronen Well-Known Member

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    Oh sorry.
    I guess your big book of truth tells you so....
    I guess I offended your cult beliefs, so naturally - I do not understand.

    collector's car cannot be used as trade asset with someone who's not a car collector.
    Try to buy milk at woolies with an old whatever-whatever rusted old (which might be worth fortune for someone who can recognise it's value)

    Your examples are always going around life of luxury, where people can afford (probably can't really, but they feel they can) risking their money in order to make more money. Quick.

    The huge value of BitCoin is only cause stupid people who heard on some youtube or some friend who told them that's where the big money is.
    "Buy BitCoin and you'll become multimillionaire!!!!"

    So they bought, purring money into it without understanding anything about it or even understand why it'll make them rich.
    They definitely don't have any idea where most of the "BitCoins" are stored or by who.

    As people here said: cult, ignorance and greed are the basic forces for good ponzi scheme.
    It's only time until it'll all come down crashing, like any other ponzi scheme in the history.

    The only question is when and who'll pull out just before it's all gone.
    At the end - it's a zero sum game: if someone became super rich - someone else lost everything.
    BitCoin, regardless of whatever anyone will say - does not create any value.
     
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  20. Laker

    Laker Well-Known Member

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    Bitcoin is the only asset in history which cannot be taken off you through force or violence. It’s borderless and can be taken undetected to any country in the world. It cannot be replicated, counterfeited or inflated. It can be transferred instantly and with near zero fees to anyone worldwide with no third party.
    Personally I see great value in all things mentioned above. If you don’t that’s cool. I think they’re a a lot of people who do though and that list keeps continuing to grow.
     
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