SMSF software?

Hi

Does anyone has SMSF that has more members than yourself and your partner?
what software/spreadsheet do you use to keep track of each member contribution and return?

 

BGL Simple Fund 360 and Class are the two. I dont believe Class allow trustee use. BGL have a trustee edition which is essentially the full edition for a single fund. Implementation is not simple however let alone mastery of all the issues. I dont take on DIY that way as its problematic as its people who want a cheap solution but when we find issues they dont like to pay.

Spreadsheets and retail software are totally inadequate to comply. I even find accountants who use traditional ledger software and that is an unacceptable approach.

 

I use BGL Simple Fund 360 Trustee Edition. I also have the option of the using the same from the SMSF accountant but I wanted all my data in one place and it was easy to give access to him.

If you just want to keep track of member contribution then any spreadsheet will do. Macquarie CMA accounts also support SuperStream messages so it's a bit more easier.

If you want a no-frills SMSF then stick to something like eSuperfund - works out cheaper and is less hassle than a DIY route.

 

This link provide a list of options that might be interesting to do some further research on:

SMSF Software

 

That info is quite incorrect and assumes comprehensive knowledge of many factors. eg TBar reporting, members elements and tax components, documents re pensions and elections such as for concessional deuctions. Prior to refusing engagements where the client self prepared the accounting I found a almost 100% rate of errors in client produced information. I consider errors to include any mistake and these include:
- Income income and expenses share (SIS Reg)
- Contribution allocation errors
- Tax elements and member statements (Required by law)
- Lack of compliance re deed or SIS Act re s52 obligations.
- Issues with audit as many forms of software are not consistent with Accounting Standards (AASB 2020-2) and may also be inconsistent with a deed rules
- If the software cannot produce periodic financial reports at any point within a financial year it is unsuitable.

DIY concerns are alos common with human trustees more than corporate trustees. I think there is correlation to cost savings. However that has shifted since most lenders require a corporate trustee. The risks are far higher in these instances and then the client have a concern noted but then not want to pay for it and the handling of the remedy etc. Basically its a high risk and high cost issue. Its not work we seek to do. I know most accountant have the same approach. Its like we wont assist most trusts with a tax return alone. Its like trying to enrol your kids in school and only wanting them taught maths.

But they call me regularly wanting some "help"....for free usually.

Having access to software and it being fully suitable and the user using it proficiently are very different. Many accountants choose not to do SMSF work as it is far more complex and high risk than most other work. A SMSF is highly complex and under s55 of SISA adviser liability cant be ignored.

 

For those that have experience with BGL Simple Fund 360, are there particular bank / accounts that have more seamless integration than others via the BGl Bank Data Service? Macquarie, CBA, NAB?

Also any brokerage services that are have better integration than others. CBA, NAB, Selfwealth?

 

Hi Paul, do you have concerns with Gavin Ma / icaresmsf or just have concerns with the software options suggested?

 

Using BGL 360 with Commsec feed for contract notes and CBA feed for bank accounts both work seamlessly for me.

I reckon some people are scaremongering to extract excess fees in this area. My expense ratio is approx 0.01%. including audit. Would be happy to pay for specific help (though wouldn't go to someone with a bias that I'm a stupid DIY freeloader) when needed but in over a decade that hasn't been necessary. Audit has never picked up any issues, tax office never had an issue.

 

Thanks @dunno appreciate the insight into your experience. I'd be happy to start with CBA/CommSec to be confident of seamless integration and investigate alternatives in the future (if necessary).

 

The suggested software solutions. Some are just appalling. Others very good. eg MYOB would be a very poor choice and is 100% unsuitable to the task. We have a free choice to use Handisoft Super... But I would never use it either. Its not suitable. BGL 360 is 100% suitable.

BGL has data feeds with a massive number of banks and brokers and platforms. The most common pairing is CBA and Commsec. But loads of others too without any issues. The process is tailored to the specific data provider and is easy any way. BGL also automates many processes like tax, pensions / actuarial certs and documentation etc. Under old traditional accounting these were the time killers.

 

I was totally frustrated with my accountant re my SMSF nearly 10 years back. I was doing all the work but getting increasing accounting fees every year.

On moving my work to Super Accounting Services I halved my SMSF accounting fees and I am doing virtually no accounting work for the SMSF. I say virtually as I do still have to forward some documentation re off platform records and also EOY statements for the auditor.

The SMSF expense ration is about 0.06% including the audit. I would dread to think what my accountants charge would now be up to for the SMSF.

 

Macquarie CMA works well with BGL (and just about everything else)

 

Your accountant should try to automate where possible i.e third party feeds for cash accounts, TD and Shares and if you have property loan statements as a 3rd party all you should provide is invoices and split of contributions where possible. audit costs themselves will be at least $350 for a fund whether it is charged to you directly or paid for within the accounting package cost....

Cheers Ivan

 

BGL 360 or Class.

If you are doing anything else to help your accountant (like MYOB) you are wasting your time.

i have never seen a compliant smsf without specialist software.

 

Hi Ivan

This was 10 odd years ago. I spoke to him at the time and he couldn't see his way clear so I took my SMSF elsewhere. He is still my accountant for all my other work and I still pay him motsa. The main issue I had at the time was the amount of work that I was doing and then still paying him for much the same work.

Since his awareness of the data availability he has been trying to regain the SMSF work but I am just not confident that he won't ratchet up the fees as against my flat fees which he couldn't match.

 

Accountants can be like your mechanic with an smsf, where its not fixed they can lump it up with other services, I find fixed fees provides certainty and for us, we donot touch non smsf, and we specialise in property which some accountants dont but when I see fees of transfers in for simple smsfs I do have a rye smile - $4-5k for a simple fund..... Re the mechanic example, im into classic cars, the mechanic I use does not have fixed fees, I trust him (like you would with an accountant and today I just bought a new engine for $8k....I kinda feel sick, as I still need to pay labour to identify the problem when I knew with the issue (leaks etc) a new engine would have been easier (suggested it and it was a nah it will be fine).....live and learn and be kind to my wife to justify my hobby and wait for the bill.....

Cheers Ivan

 

Currently my SMSF are with comsec and onlinesuperfund
onlinesuperfund get all the data feed from comsec so it is a very straight forward process for me to do tax return and audit each year.

my kids want me to run their super that where I want to know how complex it is to add another two more members to the fund and how to keep track of their contribution and return.

If I Invest as a join pool, so their fund and mine when we buy and sell shares we use whatever fund available in the account to do so and at the end of the FY I can tally up each of their contribution and work out the fund total return and I can applied that percentage of return to their contribution? is that feasible ?

 

If you're using an an administrator already I would hope that they would do all this for you with compliant software and systems. Probably a good idea to contact them.

 

DIY contribution tracking and time weighting can be error prone. Does onlinesuperfund not do this for you already?

You can also use seggregation to keep your kids funds and corresponding returns separate.

Bigger question is, does it actually make sense?