SMSF affordable fees

Does anyone has any experience with Green Frog SMSF?
https://greenfrogsuper.com.au/

They have very reasonable fees compares to many others. Just wondering if there is anything that can go wrong with them.

I have done my research with SMSF and I have a fairly good knowledge about the process and regulations.

Is there any reason to select someone who would charge 5 times more than these guys?

 

a lot of the smsf administrators do a decent job.

most of them outsource to philippines, india or vietnam so as long as thats ok for you then the work is generally fine.

 

This firm doesn't outsource. I was told they have a good software portal system to streamline work.

 

for that pricing id be surprised but as long as you get it in writing then ok. all of them have streamlined online systems. the processing is then generally done offshore.

 

Understand that base pricing will have add ons usually around what you agree to provide and anything that adds to time. This is a CA firm.
At that price processing is not a CA services but more a rudimentary bookkeeping by junior or other forms of staff (possibly unqualified) under some form of supervision. Dont expect guidance and advice or strategy support for that price. Little things can add to time eg no trustee declarations, invest strategy. Not using datafeeds etc.Typically they will provide a strict checklist of things they require.

All modern firms and admin services use a client portal and sigital signing and either BGL or Class software for smsfs

 

It would be rare to be five times that price, have you actually been quoted that?

 

Shame that you give such bad impression on companies without knowing. Please stop spreading negative feedback on your competitors without proper understanding what they are doing.

I have contacted www.pricefinancial.com.au. It's the worse by far by the service, friendliness or quality.

 

Yes, $5000 ongoing

 

Wow! Did they ask what the SMSF would have in it before giving that price? Are you sure this doesn't include setup fees or financial planning?

 

I refused to support the smsf establishmnet requested. I declined to assist.
We dont take on all SMSF requests. If we consider the risk is outside parameters we say no. Its comes with one entity in the group holding a AFSL.

Samj you have a issue because I said "No", Move on. Its a professional and ethical limit. We sometimes say no. Now you are cranky. Let it go. I say no to others too. We generally dont encourage leveraged property for small fund balances as the annual costs annualise to be a costly "fee" when compared to other fund options eg. This is consistent with ATO and ASIC warnings. We must also consider the ATO written warning to funds about holding a predominant single asset. They say

Investing the predominant share of your retirement savings in one asset or asset class can lead to concentration risk. In this situation, your investment strategy should document that you considered the risks associated with a lack of diversification. It should include how you still think the investment will meet your fund’s investment objectives including your fund’s return objectives and cash flow requirements.​

Asset concentration risk is heightened in highly leveraged funds, such as where the trustee has used a limited recourse borrowing arrangement to acquire the asset. This can expose members to a loss in the value of their retirement savings should the asset decline in value. It could also trigger a forced asset sale if loan covenants (for example, the loan to valuation ratio) are breached.
​

Generally when someone cant satisfy us on the concerntration risk we will decline to assist further.

When someone makes enquiry about setups and leveraged limited recourse borrowings a fee up to $4K can be typical of two companies, two trusts, ATO etup incl ESA and then support for electronic rollovers and other aspects of smsf formation these days. We also ensure there is a initial written investmnet strategy that addresses concentration risk and life insurance. There is commonly a bank sign off at times in there on top. Includes some basic strategy and support and the like. If others charge less and do things for no cost thats their choice. I know the time involved. Our typical costs for ongoing for a simple leveraged fund would be far less than $5K perhaps $2500-$3000. It was never discussed, if you think we did. A example was given of how a $5K annual fee would equate to a industry fund charging fees of 2% which is very high.

I havent actually said anything derogatory. I have provided a professional view that indicates greenfrog are operated within or alongside a CA firm. Thats a very good thing actually but its also doesnt mean a CA does the work. At that price especially. However it doesnt mean the fee is as all inclusive as many consider. Each should make their own enquiries.

 

All valid points.

It's the same for any business, you may be successful at tender however when the risk analysis comes in and doesn't tick all of the boxes, you decline.

I may take on management of a commercial building but if the client isn't prepared to accept and implement the recommendations for necessary works (repairs, maintenance, presentation, modifications, upgrades etc) for no valid reason other than doesn't want to spend the money (ever), then you have to consider the relationship.

 

From a financial point of view I like SMSF work but if the shoe doesnt fit dont try to wear it. Many people confuse us as being obliged to do their work. I offer a no cost initial chat as its a good way for them to see what we can do to help but we also use it to decide if we want to. It doesnt mean the proposed client has done anything wrong either. I know many firms that have a checklist for suitable clients. One I know wont touch you if you arent a medical professional. Other firms have a fee floor - Unless its a family group spending $20K and up they wont take it on..

 

They have CAs and do not outsource. Provide good guidance so far.

 

Appreciate that feedback. I dont appreciate the defamatory tone on this forum which is contrary to rules of conduct. No such thing as personal threads. Not spam either.
Spam email and texts | ACMA

I do remain very clear that I dont assist and support smsf establishments for merely $100K of super involving borrowings as it is my professional view such advice would not benefit the member and raises professional concerns for what could be seen as poor advice at high cost when compared to the superannuation involved. You may recall I also discussed the need to use some of that balance to fund start up costs and a liquidity buffer as well as upfront costs like legals, bank fees and legals, P&B costs, duty etc . This leaves little if any tolerance for even a modest borrowing. It also demonstrates a poor net yield which would burn cashflow at present rates of interest excepting contributions which may be consumed. In the absence of growth the fund would consume contributions and need these to be maintained. If anything occurred to stop contributions that fund may be obliged to sell the property. All valid reasoning in my professional view. Remember this ? Yes. I keep exceptional notes about all advice incl unpaid discussions. I have assisted smsfs and public offer funds for over 23 years. I consider it very costly for the potential benefits and contrary to published guidance for advisers. While it may be a member decision to proceeed it also requires the cooperation of advisers which may be a professional concern. I always consider client best interests above mere fees.

That hyperlink indicates how ASIC may seek to review advisers giving that advice or supporting such acts. Chasing a lower cost provider may assist to address that in part however the minimum costs are difficult to address in establishment and may be as a minimum between $3500 and upwards. I never quoted $5K as start up costs. You quoted that in your enquiry email to me prior to discussion (we also file all such issues) . In addition annual costs of smsf levies, asic fees for two companies, audit and accounting would typically easily start at $2K but be slightly higher for a fund with borrowings. That reflects as at least 2% "member fee" if compared to any other form of fund. I never quoted you any costs and merely indicated indicative costs. . Its not far off typical costs but isnt what we charge but as we didnt seek to assist your choice you remain offended perhaps. I dont care. I fulfilled my responsibilities.

However the costs to implement and maintain this do remain high. Such actions are contrary to the general views of ASIC and the ATO who are both superannuation regulators. Advisers can also have a awkward issue if the ATO decline to allow a smsf to elect to be regulated if they consider the amounts are too small. The ATO perform a review at the time of any smsf formation. I have never had it occur and dont seek to have it occur.

I spoke to you without charge to arrive at that view. I regularly freely give my time to assist steer and guide members here both through posts or directly. I hope some read this and see the way advisers must consider more than a request. I have never and will never do what a client tells me if I dont agree. To receive such guidance for free and then use your offense at rejection to argue is ironic.

 

Who said you gave $5000 quote? It wasn't you, this thread is not about you at all.
You didn't even bother talking to me and hang up the phone in couple of minutes even without listening to me properly.
Anyway, I have found a good company with a friendly team.

 

I'd be researching further into the fees. A SMSF requires and independent auditor each financial year - often a requirement is also to engage a financial planner (although one session of that and he realised he had nothing to advise me on)

If you click on the additional fees - it gives you a clearer picture. It sounds a bit like a rental agent who charges a lower monthly fee, but extra for every inspection or bill paid

I have a specialist SMSF acct who, when you add it all up, charges similar and he's literally down the road (okay, a couple of suburbs over) with a large office team

 

Hi Samj - I have used GreenFrog for 3 or so years now and they have been great.

Paul from Price Financial setup my smsf fund and managed it for a number of years before that.

 

We've used Green Frog since 2015 and found them to be excellent.