SMSF Administration – Recommendations

Discussion in 'Superannuation, SMSF & Personal Insurance' started by dunno, 15th Apr, 2019.

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  1. dunno

    dunno Well-Known Member

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    I am after some recommendations for SMSF administration providers.


    I currently administer my own SMSF using BGL SimpleFund 360 trustee software.

    My long-term SMSF Auditor has hang up their boots, so I am taking the opportunity to consider handing over administration at the same time as making new auditor arrangements.

    I would like somebody / company that does the lot – Accounts, compliance, periodical trust deed review, tax, audit, minutes, binding death nominations and knowledgeable with integration into estate plan and can help run/wind up fund in my absence.

    Is there any PC business member providing SMSF administration?

    Does anybody have an administrator who they would recommend? Ball park, what are you paying for a comprehensive service?

    Our fund has two members, one bank account, direct Australian shares and some ETF’s. Nothing complicated. I am looking for a fee for actual services provider – not a percentage of assets model.
     
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  2. Terry_w

    Terry_w Lawyer, Tax Adviser and Mortgage broker in Sydney Business Member

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  3. MWI

    MWI Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately I have used the services of my accountant to do, accounts, compliance, periodical trust deed review, tax, and their auditor, minutes, SMSF investment strategy but then used a specialized lawyer for BDN and estate planning. So actually two people not just one.
    Each one quoted for services they provided, but accountant also handles other entities not just SMSF for us, and the lawyer did estate planning for other entities too not just SMSF.
    Also, we have a much more complicated structures (such as LRBAs, borrowing, private IPO holdings, cash in offsets, many more SMSF accounts, and quite few IPs), not so much in where most SMSF holdings are.
    Just ask for quotes when you enquire....and than you can compare.
     
  4. Nodrog

    Nodrog Well-Known Member

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    @dunno given your knowledge if it was just for SMSF admin then the following is great value ($899 pa for the lot) and I generally hear good feedback about it. I think a few here use them, @oracle?:

    Self Managed Super Funds | SMSF - ESUPERFUND

    However if wanting the estate planning expertise and running it if you’re not around etc then it may not be suitable.

    I’m looking for a better solution myself at some stage. In the past / current I’ve tended to use small operators. However it seems that the owner ends up retiring / quitting for health reasons / dying etc. The new owner most times has ended up crap. Bit over it all.

    Hence next time I’m thinking of using a larger operation that’s likely to be around long term regardless of who comes and goes.

    Whirlpool might be worth a search as SMSF admin pops up regularly there:

    For “smsf admin” - Search - Whirlpool Forums

    Quite frankly if I was starting over again I’d avoid all the hassle of a SMSF and simply invest in an Industry Fund. A number of them offer direct shares / LICs / ETFs now for those who want to take that route.

    If I kick the bucket and hence much of my balance will be forced out of our SMSF I doubt it would be cost effective for my wife to keep the SMSF running. She would likely need advisor assistance in addition to admin. An Industry Fund would remove all the stress for her and likely be much cheaper.
     
    Last edited: 15th Apr, 2019
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  5. ChrisP73

    ChrisP73 Well-Known Member

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  6. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Founder Staff Member

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  7. SatayKing

    SatayKing Well-Known Member

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    The thought has crossed my mind on more than one occasion. I still haven't resolved the matter fully. Money person for the money side and a legal one for the big, heavy stuff. Have yet to find a group which does the whole shebang without there being a possible conflict of interest.
     
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  8. dunno

    dunno Well-Known Member

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    @Redwood, @Paul@PFI, Do either of you do share centric SMSF administration? or is your competitive advantage and knowledge more suited to SMSF’s with a property component.

    Do you use BGL, Class or some other platform? Do you have internal licenced auditors?

    My research to date suggests FinTech has had a big impact on Equity centric SMSF administration with prices plummeting since I last looked, and it would seem specialty is required for competitiveness.

    Not sure I am going to be able to find both a competitive administrator and a ‘key’ person to oversight big picture in the same person/organisation.

    Problem with being a fanatical DIY to date is that I have no idea of how to go about finding the sort of professional helpers I would like to find.
     
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  9. Handyandy

    Handyandy Well-Known Member

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    We had similar requirements some years ago. I was doing all the work processing all share trades, dividends, reconcile bank account etc etc. This took a considerable amount of my time each year. Then my accountant was still charging me $3,500 per years in 'accounting services'.

    I changed over to Super Accounting and apart from preparing all the paperwork for the changeover I have done no accounting work for the super fund since. Only thing I still need to handle are those transactions that are outside of the 'financial system' they plug into to receive the various financial transaction. The transactions I still need to forward are ING term deposit details some managed funds details and some printed statements (scanned).

    They charge me $1600 PA and I do no work aprt from the investment decisions and investments. This includes the audit Asic return and ATO forms. I still need to pay the Asic and ATO fees. Wasn't a hard decision and has worked out since 2012 or thereabouts. We have about $2.5mil in the SMSF

    Superannuation Accounting Services - self managed superannuation fund, accounting, tax, audit
     
  10. dunno

    dunno Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for detailing your situation @Handyandy
     
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  11. dunno

    dunno Well-Known Member

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    I don’t have too much of an issue with the doing the administration side. I guess what I’m really after is handing over the administration so that somebody can be in the prime position to jump in if the wife rang up one day and said Dunno is Deado at which stage they become a second trustee and undertake the functions of winding up the fund and rolling her funds to a truly passively managed option like an Australian super income/accumulation fund.

    I’m not even sure that a SMSF fund administrator familiar with the fund is overly important, Maybe a good executor can direct any Tom, Dick & Harry administrator to do it – just trying to get my head around things.

    As for current administration.

    I currently use BGL Simple Fund 360 trustee, costs me $200 per year – I have feeds set up for all contract notes and bank statement and because I have nothing too complex the software matches everything correctly. Literally have to do nothing except review, put in ETF annual statements at the end of the year and maybe match/override one or two transactions manually that the software couldn’t figure out correctly. Press create entries and the software does everything; member allocations, minute, accounts, tax return etc.

    I then invite an Auditor which gives them the log on details and credentials to my fund for them to carry out the Audit. I have tentatively found a new auditor that specialises in BGL audits and charges $300 plus GST. Last auditor also submitted tax return electronically on my behalf once he completed audit– not sure if new auditor will do this yet – It should be just the push of one button if he is set up to do it.

    Annual DIY costs are $530. Plus, occasionally I enlist a trust deed update service ($137.50) to ensure trust is compliant and efficient in light of legislative changes.

    Considering Administration firms would only be paying BGL $100 for my Simple Fund 360 feeds and access and should be able to get lower rates on Audit especially if they have inhouse auditors and be able to spread costs of keeping up to date on trust compliance issues. They have stuff all direct costs in managing my fund. But I’m happy to consider paying the right person a decent amount on top for overheads and to be familiar with my fund and be there when I can’t. But I’m not going to be ripped blind when I know how little hands on work is needed to administer a fund which is set up properly with data feeds and a good software platform.

    If I can’t find the right person/firm. I’ll probably end up continuing DIY administration or low-cost Fintech option (icare super @ $77 per month without restrictions looks best so far on that front) and look more fully into estate planning – I’ve neglected that area, planning for my own demise hasn’t been on the top of my fun things to do list.
     
    Last edited: 18th Apr, 2019
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  12. dunno

    dunno Well-Known Member

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  13. ChrisP73

    ChrisP73 Well-Known Member

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    Hi @dunno I'm not in a position to be able to add anything useful but but did want to thank you for your post as you've opened my eyes to a world of alternative administration option I wasn't fully aware of (to this point my only go to would have been esuperfund). I have been deliberating over SMSF for the last 12 months, without doing any serious research but soaking in everything I can - including other's personal experiences and changing circumstances over time. At this point we are with industry funds (Australian Super for me and SunSuper for Mrs) which have been perfectly fine but as the total sum is now becoming more significant the combined fees have been increasing. See Australian Super Fees

    Like yourself (I think) my investment strategy for super is shares only and have no issue dealing with administration myself but don't want to burden my family with this if I was no longer able/available.

    One thing I did note about iCare is the fees and process for winding up a fund seem very clear and transparent.

    Not meaning to derail your thread but I'm certain others are following with interest and having similar deliberations.
     
    Last edited: 19th Apr, 2019
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  14. Threebythree

    Threebythree Active Member

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  15. dunno

    dunno Well-Known Member

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    Here is another low cost SMSF administrator that looks interesting for further invetigation.
    Just Superfund – SMSF Professionals
    Sub $1000 including audit and no restrictions on brokers / bank accounts etc.

    this one also on the list to investigate.
    https://greenfrogsuper.com.au/#
    $950 + 395 Audit.

    Anybody have any experience with either?


    Thanks @Threebythree for the link to superannuation wharehouse.
    I remember seeing something about them having some issues with ASIC - does anybody know anything more about that? something to be worried about or not?
     
  16. dunno

    dunno Well-Known Member

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    This is the first time since I started our SMSF in 2003/04 that I have given our superannuation arrangements any thought. We started it because back then there were basically no other good options for managing your own super, and superannuation funds were non-transparent, expensive and had very limited investment options. To date costs have been held low by DIY administration averaging around approx. $500 plus Ato supervisory levy. As posted above, considering letting that rise a little to get rid of the DIY part (would rise to about $1000p.a and there seems to be good options) or pay even a little more to establish a relationship with the right person as a "hands on" Administrator, but as of yet haven't found anybody suitable.

    I'm thinking I'm going to broaden the review of my super arrangements beyond SMSF administration options to whether the SMSF is still the best option. This review is also timely because of the disadvantage that SMSF's will face for Australian equities if franking credit refunds get abolished.

    So I have to get my head around Industry/Public sector funds; both pre-mixed, indexed and direct investment options and should probably also consider wrap account master trusts to see if they are cost effective options. All things I have paid no attention to for the last decade plus+ so I guess I have a bit of research to do. Thanks @ChrisP73 for the link you posted somewhere on pat the shufflers series on super - that was interesting read as I start to familiarise myself with the options now available in the Super environment.

    Anybody else considering the big picture on Super at the moment?
     
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  17. Buynow

    Buynow Well-Known Member

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    +1 for esuperfund here
     
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  18. Paul@PAS

    Paul@PAS Tax, Accounting + SMSF + All things Property Tax Business Plus Member

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    We have no concerns with trustee self administration and then can assist and support finalisation and audit. No problem especially when we share the BGL file. We use a CA firm that is fast, fixed price and staffed by real people who can advise on technical issues before they become a concern. We use BGL360.

    Cut price SMSF admin means you are engaging with unqualfied and unskilled. Reality says it costs far more than $500 a year. You can only quote that price with offshore support which should alarm anyone. I cant speak to the Testra person about my bill so why allow the SMSF admin to be in a sweatshop. Trustees can add value by DIY if they know how and dont make a mess of it. Its not that hard but we dont train them either. We dont want to engage and assist anyone who wants to pay a few hundred a year and then expect full service. I have had a few clients leave to do this only to return. eg You want to end and restart reversionary pensions, rollovers, TBar reporting, segregation strategies and other matters we do it for no extra for full service client but would charge a DIY fund on a case by case basis.

    Out tax software allows clients to enter data and draft returns but I would NEVER allow it. It would increase costs and risks. What we sell is not data entry. We sell knowledge, skills, advice and service on complex issues based on qualifications and experience. You can choose a unqualified unemployed receptionist who did a few hours of training at a franchised tax firm or you can choose not to. Very different pricing.
     
    Last edited: 26th Apr, 2019
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  19. Redwing

    Redwing Well-Known Member

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    I use Superplus

    I noted last year Superplus migrated clients across to McLowd which makes the core accounting software freely available to both trustees and practitioners. You will only be charged if you upgrade to the Pro version
     
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  20. ChrisP73

    ChrisP73 Well-Known Member

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    Spent about 10 minutes looking for a decent searchable database to really compare super fund/ option fees and optional costs (like insurance). I can't find anything decent. I don't know - but I suspect there might be paid services, eg. SuperRatings Research - SuperRatings but even then who knows if they are any good. The only websites I could find were completely unsatisfactory - e.g only compared "balanced" options, or $50K fum, etc.

    Is anyone aware of searchable database?
     
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