NSW Smoke alarms and inspection

i check all smoke alarms and change all the batteries (even if they are not flat) at the beginning of each tenancy. My agent just sent me a message asking me to allow them to send out an independent company to check my fire alarms for a cost.

How can I avoid this unnecessary expense? They said if I don’t get this checked, the liability sits with me. How does everyone do it? $100plus to press a button to check alarms is not cheap.

 

If you do it yourself, how are you going to prove compliance and do you know what legislation/acts you need to comply with? If a serious/fatal event occurs, and you can't prove compliance, will your insurance (assuming you have) cover you?

 

I believe that it is a little price to pay, and my PM organises it every 12 months. $100 is a small price to pay.

 

So does it mean this is something that I should factor for every 12 months?

 

I would, it mitigates risk. The independent company will also ensure that you have the correct working smoke alarms to meet legislation. Federal legislation- Landlords must ensure their rental property is properly fitted with the required number of working smoke alarms, complying with the Australian Standard (3786), and they are installed as outlined in the Building Code of Australia (BCA) part 3.7.2. Then you have State Legislation.

 

My understanding is in WA they need to be less than 10 years old. Yet my PM insisted I pay $100 to get them checked. They passed them but didn't check dates mine are older than 10 years.

 

The thing is I had these done before so I know they are fitted correctly and to legislation. The only thing they would be checking is whether my alarm is working, which I know they are since I just recently tested them. So really all I’m paying is a piece of paper that’s says I’ve passed? I understand the need for insurance purposes but is there no other way to prove this otherwise?

 

A diary record and copy of battery receipt?

People use diary records in court to refresh their memory

https://www.fire.nsw.gov.au/page.php?id=439

Factsheet 20: Smoke alarms

 

First point: legislation changes. Do you monitor the legislation and do you know if it the number, type, and location of alarms is still compliant?

Second point: in any case, ask your insurer what they would find acceptable evidence that you were compliant. Different insurers may have differing requirements.

 

Obviously I don't know what service/plan they're trying to get you on, but with ours for example, $79/yr plan with Smoke Alarm Solutions includes replacement alarms, unlimited call outs for maintenance (eg. tenant can call them direct and say it's beeping come change battery or it's faulty etc). In Qld, a property needs a compliance certificate provided at the start of every tenancy and also every year, the cost of an electrician to attend is like $100 just for showing up, then fees for anything else they do whilst there, most don't even provide a certificate it's just a non-descript invoice. From a business sense, I cannot understand how anyone can think they're better off not going with a specialist smoke alarm checking company etc. (the numbers and risk factors simply do not add up)

 

Okay thanks everyone. Ill get it done then

Thanks

 

The liability still sits with you regardless. Technically there is nothing stopping you doing this yourself. However, as pointed out above, there are some very good reasons/arguments for having this done by a third party.

- Luke

 

You follow the rules, and all is good.

I have PMs that do the battery change each new tenant cause sometimes no one has one of these sham businesses setup

It is all rot about requiring a certificate from some possible bonehead that has prob done a 1 day course for a boss. But record what is done and age etc.....follow the regs in other words.

I know some people doing this, and I would hardly trust them to be able to look after a pet, zero life skills, basically I would not employ them in a supermarket let's say, so the bar is not high, the business owners are cunning though, but it is a lottery as to who they will send and you won't avoid problems if it all goes pear shaped either way IMO.

 

My pm uses one of the companies mentioned, yet the alarms "maintained" are the same dodgy ones I had like 10 years ago when I lived there..still never really think I get any value out of them other than their liability insurance.

 

PS certainly makes people feel fuzzy and warm, esp the PM that has palmed off one area they see as a problem or pain....

Bet PM feels there is value !

 

There's more to it, my tenants removed the batteries, why... beats me, you have no control over what others will do, so your word against theirs.
In addition in QLD when a new tenant moves in they need to be checked so some smoke alarm companies will include these additional visits as part of their yearly fee.
Others also provide discounts if combined smoke alarm with blinds fee.
It is a very small cost to pay for the time, compliance, peace of mind and especially when it is part of running this 'RE business' and you can claim as an expense too.
I tend to concentrate on much larger picture ahead and spend my time on research or other areas with property investing instead on concentrating on many minor details instead.
It's like in business certain things you can do yourself or outsource to others, where can you utilize your time to spend better instead?

 

There is an old saying, is basically about bringing down any business by letting many small things go, not unlike being nickle and dimed.

I do use them as well, but only when the PM insists, but as is more complex in QLD now, would def use them there, it is also a distance thing.

Here is the thing though, many of these crook PMs insist on these companies, but I have had them do inspections and same, tenant has removed batteries or alarms and PM did not notice or notify nor check on what the smoke alarm guys had done prior nor called them to rectify.

So, while your blissfully using your time to better advantage, maybe your overlooking the small things that can bring you undone, the more you look, the more you will find that a large % of PMs will be putting your neck on the block, either accidentally, or due to not giving a rats.

Of course there are members here where all this stuff will never happen too, they have perfect everything

 

I doubt there is a perfect anything, perfect timing, or investment, even perfect world....
I also manage my managers and many PMs on many IPs in various states, hence it does become an issue to do it myself, not that I would really wish to do it. On top of running a separate businesses....
So I certainly do not disregard managing my IPs' details but what I meant is that I would prefer: to grow my IP portfolio more into more millions rather than spend that time changing alarms myself to the cost of $100 per year, which is a compliance issue and is a tax deduction.
You see you and I have only 24 hours in a day, nobody has more or less time, so my point is that I personally choose to spend my time on much more important issues which I am a specialist in.
Like in any business, if you run one, you decide what you can do and what you are good at but some aspects you will be not so good at or just cannot do it all, so why not outsource especially if the cost is minimal in comparison?
I would rather research suburbs where I can buy a property where I can convert it into more Beds or Baths with renovation potential where there is cost disparity and established capital benchmarks between such properties just to give an example.
Long ago one of my mentors suggested this to me....property is about the general 'big picture'...what you wish to achieve...in what time....and there will be many challenges/issues along, as these 'minor' details that will creep in without our control.
So he communicated to me to concentrate on the big picture more rather than on those small details that will happen no matter what. The big picture enables me to persevere to move on, while the small details I concentrated on in the past would limit me personally to move ahead...
So that's what I meant, where I am coming from!

 

I am in a similar situation where my PM is bullying me to say that only the specialist smoke alarm company can give a certificate of compliance!!! What a load of BS!!!

 

Definitely! Post a screen shot of the correspondence so we can see how they are bullying you so others can be on the look out for it!!