Signing QLD documents in NSW?

Discussion in 'Legal Issues' started by StartupEasy, 5th Dec, 2019.

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  1. StartupEasy

    StartupEasy Member

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    Hey guys,

    Im in the middle of signing my mortgage documents for my investment property in QLD. One of the criteria is for a witness (Justice of Peace or Lawyer) to see my signature. Unfortunately, JPs in NSW cant be witness to QLD real estate signing and I dont want to pay for a whole legal consultation just so a lawyer can be my witness. Do you guys have any other alternative or know QLD JPs that are currently in NSW?
     
  2. thatbum

    thatbum Well-Known Member

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    I think you're better off finding a lawyer willing to do it for free or for minimal cost.
     
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  3. Terry_w

    Terry_w Lawyer, Tax Adviser and Mortgage broker in Sydney Business Member

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    I think there was a case from a few years ago where a lawyer was considered to be negligent because they witnessed some mortgage and/or loan docs and didn't warn the 'client' about something wrong with them.

    So not many lawyers will want to witness these.

    I wouldn't think there would be much that could go wrong with witnessing a mortgage though.
     
  4. Paul@PAS

    [email protected] Tax, Accounting + SMSF + All things Property Tax Business Plus Member

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    A court registrar?
    Police etc....what is the requirement?
     
  5. StartupEasy

    StartupEasy Member

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    Trying to find a lawyer at the moment. Most of them are charing their usual hourly rate (250$ minimum). It does seem to be the only option for me though : (.

    Is it at any all possible I can get a lawyer acquaintance (or potentially one here in the forum : )) to be my witness after work hours? Do they have to be on the clock to be a witness?
     
  6. Terry_w

    Terry_w Lawyer, Tax Adviser and Mortgage broker in Sydney Business Member

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    There is no requirement for a contractual relationship with them from a witnessing perspective, but see my comments above on why they may not want to witness.

    If I was in Sydney I would do it. But I am not atm.
     
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  7. JDM

    JDM Well-Known Member

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  8. StartupEasy

    StartupEasy Member

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    I have been told by 3 or 4 JPs (albeit over the phone) that a law just changed and that they cant witness any mortgage documents from QLD anymore. However, whats odd is that a week ago, my parents had a JP from NSW witness their QLD mortgage document. So you have a point. Maybe Ill go scout around in person and see if theyll let me sign it. Although, ive heard that sometimes banks will send back the documents if your witness is not appropriate.
     
  9. Terry_w

    Terry_w Lawyer, Tax Adviser and Mortgage broker in Sydney Business Member

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    apparently there was something in the JP newsletter a few years ago that warned JPs off witnessing QLD mortgages being signed. I can't remember what it was either but this was discussed on the forum
     
  10. willair

    willair Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    There is a gentleman that posts in this site that would be able to give a professional opinion and have this sorted very quickly ..Just do a search on..RPI..
     
  11. Rugrat

    Rugrat Well-Known Member

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    It is true a NSW JP cannot witness QLD mortgage documents. It seems crazy to me too. I did read online somewhere that the law had just recently changed yo accept any JP; but I just had to get QLD mortgage documents signed recently too and the bank I went with stated that they would not accept a nsw JP and that they were not aware of any change.

    Thankfully I am actually in ACT and ACT JP's can act as witness for QLD mortgages.
    From what I can guess, it has to do with the actual process required in order to become a JP in the various states. NSW JP's have to meet a lesser standard in order to become JP's. In QLD and ACT they must undertake a short course of study first. This is not the case in NSW.

    Given you are in NSW, I think your best bet is paying a lawyer. Sucks to be out of pocket though.
     
  12. Terry_w

    Terry_w Lawyer, Tax Adviser and Mortgage broker in Sydney Business Member

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    I don't know if this is true.
    See the relevant legislation which just has 'justice of the peace'.
    LAND TITLE ACT 1994 - SCHEDULE 1
     
  13. Rugrat

    Rugrat Well-Known Member

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    Just going off what my QLD based bank, my QLD based solicitor and my QLD based mortgage brokers all advised me individually in writing. They were all very clear in this specification to me, and we are talking literally 2 weeks ago.
     
  14. Terry_w

    Terry_w Lawyer, Tax Adviser and Mortgage broker in Sydney Business Member

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    And see the NSW Oaths Act
    OATHS ACT 1900 - SECT 26A Witnessing of documents for other jurisdictions

    states
    OATHS ACT 1900 - SECT 26A
    Witnessing of documents for other jurisdictions
    26A Witnessing of documents for other jurisdictions
    If it is permitted by another State, a Territory or the Commonwealth, a justice of the peace may take, receive or witness a statutory declaration, or witness the execution of a document, within New South Wales for use in relation to the other State, Territory or the Commonwealth.
     
  15. Rugrat

    Rugrat Well-Known Member

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    I don't know what to tell you. I don't know what legislation to point you to. But its kind of irrelevant if they won't accept it. Costs more and take more time to argue a legal point that something should be allowed, then to go along with standard legal practice for that state. Maybe you are right in principle, but there is a whole state that still tells you that a NSW JP cannot witness.
    Do a quick google and you will find a whole lot backing that up too, correct or incorrect as it may be as a point of law.
     
  16. qak

    qak Well-Known Member

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    This was issued in September - still not clear to me; seems to be a question of what NSW says they can do:
    https://www.jp.nsw.gov.au/Documents/witnessing-overseas-interstate-documents.pdf

    "NSW JPs are authorised under NSW law to take statutory declarations and affidavits for use in relation to other States and Territories and the Commonwealth. JPs can also certify copies of documents from other States, Territories and the Commonwealth. Following changes to the Oaths Act 1900 made by the NSW Government, NSW JPs are authorised to witness the execution of other interstate documents, such as land titles documents from another State or Territory, where this is also permitted by the law of the other state of territory."

    Maybe the documents in question don't fall in one of the above categories?
     
  17. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Well-Known Member

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    The relevant words are "If it is permitted by another State".

    Just have to find where it's prohibited by Qld law.

    https://www.jp.nsw.gov.au/Documents/jp-newsletter-april-2018.pdf

    This goes back more than 18 months.

    This mob can do it in Parramatta:
    Who can witness Queensland mortgage documents in New South Wales?
     
    Last edited: 6th Dec, 2019
  18. Terry_w

    Terry_w Lawyer, Tax Adviser and Mortgage broker in Sydney Business Member

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    perhaps there was a change in the law
     
  19. Terry_w

    Terry_w Lawyer, Tax Adviser and Mortgage broker in Sydney Business Member

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    Thats right. They may all be working on a misunderstanding or under old law. But if the bank refuses to accept a mortgage signed and won't budge till it is 'fixed' it might be quicker just to get a new witness rather than try to argue it.
     
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  20. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Well-Known Member

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    Not by the sounds of it, a Qld JP can sign but it can be any interstate lawyer, notary or conveyancer (I assume that the conveyancer would require Qld registration).
     

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