"School catchment" - makes no sense

Discussion in 'Property Market Economics' started by fl360, 6th Aug, 2020.

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  1. fl360

    fl360 Well-Known Member

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    In Sydney areas where there are a lot of Asian population, the "good schools" value judgement is always referred to by RE agents and owners of those areas.
    However if the premium is over 1 mil it is just madness.

    I am using an example of Epping NSW, the whole value proposition is about "good schools" and close to Macquarie university, the value add is at least 700k, or more against an equivalent suburb.

    any school kids can be taught well by a private tutor, if the kid is willing to learn. If the kids is not willing to learn they will not get into these "good schools" anyway. even if they get in they will only be mediocre.

    a good private tutor charges $60 / hr, one to one

    Year 12, 2 hours per school day, 4 hour per weekend, it is (14 hrs) 840 per week, let's say it runs for 45 weeks in year 12, that's $37,800 for year 12

    Year 11, 2 hours per school day, 4 hour per weekend, it is (14 hrs) 840 per week, let's say it runs for 45 weeks in year 11, that's $37,800 for year 11

    Year 10, 1.5 hours per school day, 3 hour per weekend, it is (10.5 hr), 630 per week, let's say it runs for 45 weeks in year 10, that's $28,350 for year 10

    that's only $103,950 spending, and you can basically live anywhere (close to city, close to beach, close to life) and kids go to a public school, and your kid can be as best as if you are in these "catchment" areas.

    and you save 900k.
     
  2. Someguy

    Someguy Well-Known Member

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    It’s a little bit prestige, it’s a little common goal of students and a little bit madness.

    The school itself really doesn’t have to do much to achieve good results. If it has a good reputation then parents will find any way to get their kids in, those parents seeking out the schools will then send kids to tutors and push them to study. Same kids in any other school would get same outcome. The results of the school are a result of the cohort and not that the school is actually any better at education.

    That said there is merit to being in a school where the vast majority are striving for the result of high ATAR/selective school. Competition will bring out the best in some students and less kids that don’t care distracting those that do study. Flip side is I have heard of bullying and poor behaviour from kids in OC situations as they are not at school to actually learn and just muck about, the learning how to get exam results come from tutors.
     
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  3. The Y-man

    The Y-man Moderator Staff Member

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    You're missing the intangible "social status factor"

    Asian families in particular put enormous value of social status.

    From a practical outcome point I agree the school has little in many ways to the outcome. As a uni lecturer, I find students from a whole spectrum of schools in my class.....

    The Y-man
     
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  4. Xsi

    Xsi Well-Known Member

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    I have thought of this very question myself many years back.

    From my observation, parents care a lot more about secondary school than primary. So say you have 2 or more kids, doing 6 years of secondary schooling, the calculation would look a bit different (will still probably not add up to the premium to be in the zone). The argument I have heard is that once your kids are done with secondary school, you can always sell and move on. Assuming the public school has maintained its ranking, there will always be other parents who need to buy-in the zone and willing to pay the premium!

    Personally, my kid performs better with 1:1 tutoring, but every child is different.
     
  5. Trainee

    Trainee Well-Known Member

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    The property is likely to stay more expensive than the neighbouring suburb, so its buy high sell higher.

    Anyway, when do property prices make sense?
     
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  6. hieund85

    hieund85 Well-Known Member

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    You learn from your friends and people around you as much as or even way more than from your teachers. The surrounding environment/neighbourhood also have an impact on how children will grow. Will a kid want to learn with 1:1 tutors or in classrooms if all his/her friends are playing, hanging out at Macca, Starbuck or even worse, smoking weeds?
     
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  7. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Well-Known Member

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    Based on those numbers, it is cheaper to live where you want and send the kid to a well resourced private school.

    If you're looking around Epping, the cost of Kings School isn't that much more than tutoring.
     
    Last edited: 6th Aug, 2020
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  8. Rolf Latham

    Rolf Latham Inciteful (sic) Staff Member Business Plus Member

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    Market is the market is market

    ta
    rolf
     
  9. Gockie

    Gockie Life is good ☺️ Premium Member

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    Couple of things.
    1. Better home resale value. High future demand.
    2. Kids will be mixing with kids who will also tend to do well. They will push each other to do better, and not be "bad" influences on each other.
    3. Parents will get their kids tutored around here anyway (yes, I'm in Epping). Kids seem to enjoy tutoring....

    Your choice.
     
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  10. MB18

    MB18 Well-Known Member

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    Makes you question the cause - effect relationship.

    Perhaps it is the mere school itself that (for whatever historical reason) attracts a better student, rather than creates a better student? Once the reputation was cemented it maintained a self fulfilling prophecy?

    At the end of the day does not every school teach to the same syllabus, and every teacher go to the same teachers college anyway?

    My opinion would be demographics play a greater role than some imaginary 'quality of schooling'.
     
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  11. devank

    devank Well-Known Member

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    But private schools aren't known for their education. More for the prestige and connections.
     
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  12. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Well-Known Member

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    So you don't need the education to get ahead in life, just connections ;)
     
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  13. devank

    devank Well-Known Member

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    Until year 5, our daughter thought she was clever as she was a top student at the local primary. It was so hard to get her to learn anything new.
    Then in year 6, we send her to selective classes. That's where she realised her standard by comparing to other students. Suddenly she started paying more attention to her studies and did her work. Friends they get makes a whole lot of difference.
     
  14. devank

    devank Well-Known Member

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    Or good looks. Like you & me :D
     
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  15. wylie

    wylie Moderator Staff Member

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    Unless you send them to a really bad school, kids will do well or they will not. We've seen this over and over, with our own kids too.

    Unless you want an elite school for the snob value, the "old school tie" or other connections (we weren't interested in that stuff), then I'd find a good school and leave the rest to the student.
     
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  16. AndyPandy

    AndyPandy Well-Known Member

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    I get what you mean, the advantage of the "good school" is already priced in. Similar to the "renovator's delight" advertising for homes that need a lot of work, or corner blocks with development potential.
     
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  17. Robbo80

    Robbo80 Well-Known Member

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    $700k thats a huge difference. Don't really see a huge variance in Melbourne maybe extra 10-20% which makes it a reasonable compromise vs private schools especially if you have multiple kids.

    In terms of sending a kid to a 'better' school, you are right, end of the day anyone can do well. But one thing is for sure, those that do attend more prestigious schools have access to better resources and networks that others may not. So if you are a passionate business person looking for your next big client, what better way than to tap into your kid's friendship networks. Might be the best investment you make!
     
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  18. fl360

    fl360 Well-Known Member

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    at the end of the day what all parents care is the uni entrance score their kids get.
    unis just look at that score and not which school the student is from. (may be interview skills for some courses, but that more depends on the kid).

    and after graduate employers like myself just select for interview based on uni course, and scores, and what not.... the secondary school does not matter at all.

    that secondary school could be in overseas,... no one cares.
     
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  19. Robbo80

    Robbo80 Well-Known Member

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    I know the big 4 accounting firms and legal firms do put weight on high schools. Theory being that the candidate will have access to wealthy networks and help bring in new clients.

    But yes uni is a great way to meet wealthy foreign students :D
     
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  20. Gockie

    Gockie Life is good ☺️ Premium Member

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    This should be illegal.
     
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