Sackie' shorting stocks 2022

My reply isn't intended to (and I won't) start a back and forth, but rather to elucidate my opinion on the matter, just as you have.

When anyone enters a financial market and buys, holds or sells assets - there is always legitimate risk. When real estate markets go though downturns and buyers are able to force the hand of some sellers to accept much less, it's simply being vulnerable to the laws of supply and demand and (the sometimes very volatile nature of) market sentiment.

When you sell a home at auction in booming market and bidding has exceeded your reserve by say 200k, the market has essentially "costed " (using your own words) the buyer to pay (and lose) an extra 200k plus interest. There is no connection or relevance to any notion of morality. It simply is the market forces at work. No more, no less.

Short selling is absolutely no different imo. When you short a stock, someone who can't hold on to their position/asset sells it (losing profits and/or equity) and the short seller goes into profit. Essentially, the enabling of this process to take place is governed by the laws of market sentiment and shifting volatilities in financial markets. No more, no less. Some market participants profit, some don't. Some profit a bit less, some a bit more. Some make a killing, and some get hammered.

 

Yeah, nahhhh.

Short selling is someone selling something they dont own in the first place !
Thats crooked.
Sorry mate but I sternly disagree. But I still love you!

Imagine someone selling your house from under you and buying it back cheaper when you can no longer hold it?

 

Let's agree to disagree and continue to enjoy our weekend.

 

I love you Sackie!
But please dont short my stocks.

 

I guess in current times it's gonna be a touchy topic...I get it..

Tbh little ol me won't make any difference. It's the major institutions and hedge funds. When they decide they've offloaded the last of their inventory to weak holders, it's time for price to crumble until they step in again because as retail buyers (you and I) can't move the market in any great way. Imho the entire share market is totally controlled and manipulated by the smart money aka major market players. If your on the wrong side of their campaign in the short term...it's gonna hurt..

Just my 2c.

And I sincerely hope your stocks pick up eventually. It's never nice seeing your wealth go down. I know the feeling.

 

My stocks are fine and doing well against the tide of late.
Just hate shorting for the very reasons you have just outlined.
Its amazing how most folks just "accept" the fact that instos manipulate the markets. Amazing apathy.
Anyway mate, yeah, you wont hurt much but it doesnt help those who have invested for the right reasons.
I'll stop now.

 

Just like drawing sheep and other figures in clouds. Like Elliott waves.
TA is the consensus way to trade, and just like consensus science, consensus traders are 80% wrong based on broker data. So if you want to be an the herd or consensus, TA is your go to.
By all means learn what things and patterns, indicators are called, though it's rare a long term trader who uses TA.
Forget Fibonacci, he was working out rabbits and he even did that wrong.
Better off just using even 10th as a yard stick or just even numbers on the side of the chart.

Anyone telling you they can teach you how to make profits, ask for statements.

The whole options market revolves arounbd buying and selling what you don't yet own.
If I buy and call option on a stock @ $xx, then why can I sell against it?

You borrowed money you don't own to buy a house, how crooked is that?
You bought borrowed $$ from the bank (to pay back later) and sold them for property.

It's just another trade.

 

Options are fine but straight out shorting (borrowing shares from others who dont know its happening) is crooked. Just plain crooked.
With options at least the person offering their shares in exchange for rent know about it and they authorise it themselves! Come on!

The analogy you described about borrowing money to buy a house as being crooked is ridiculous!
Are you taking the **** ?

 

@Piston_Broke

Bear Market



I asked for a sign as to how the market would go in January 2022

 

I don't think there are any issues with consent.

If you don't want to have your own shares shorted, then you can opt for a cash account rather than a margin account. If you have a margin account, then it is a condition of using that account that the broker can use your shares for shorting.

 

But then, shorts are not always profitable. Look at Amazon and Tesla overnight.

 

If holding some Vanguard then this may not make happy campers (whether it's at the wholesale level only I don't know.)



But this may - for STW

 

Individuals these days can lend out their hard to borrow shares too. E.g. Fully paid lending | Lend securities and earn income | Fidelity

 

This is crazy to me now.
I have been there. The worst thing that can happen is you win initially and keep doing this until you blow-up.

You can be lucky for awhile.
But think about it, how can you be competitive with hedge funds in the long term? How can you possibly have an edge in terms of information or decision making? They will have intel, possibly from interviewing people on the ground with the Russian situation currently or whatever the current event is. They may even have access to classified military info. Or maybe they can interview Tesla's management's next door neighbors or be sifting through Elon Musk's garbage.
Even with all this information and a lot more money than you or I, hedge funds still as a group often lag the index.

Have you read "the man who solved the market" (Zuckerman) ? It is about John Simons and Rentech. When asked what the source of his alpha was in the 90's, he said "you know, I've thought about it a lot and I really think it was dentists (*)"

(*) or real estate investors, high earners or anyone who is prone to overconfidence bias.

Good luck!

 

Anyone else shorting Tesla?

I've been adding to it since 24 Jan.

 

Did my first short today on Aussie market, playing small as still learning. For usa market do u need to stay awake til market opens ?