Review - Sage Lending

On the back of a previous thread that I posted, please find attached my honest review of a mortgage lender who frequents this forum - Sage Lending

With as much transparency as possible, I will relay my experience.

Situation:
This related to a property settlement between myself and my ex. The settlement documents provided for 60 days from the signing of the order, however by the time we received the documents back, the judge has backdated the date of settlement to when they received the documents.
I received the sealed order from the court on the 12th March 2021, with settlement required to be no later than 23rd April 2021. So a month and a couple of weeks was our time frame.

I selected Sage Lending as the are active on this forum, others had given good reviews and seemed to know what was going on. I know that brokers can work remotely, however I live in Vic, as does Peter and prefer to have the local touch. Which at one point did come in handy.

Property:
I actually was able to purchase the other half from my ex partner at a very good price (500k). The house was 50/50 with my ex. I was to pay out (take on) the entire of the outstanding mortgage ~316k, and I was going to make a cash payment to her for her equity in the house. This portion did not need to be financed.

The house was desktop valued at $620k So sitting at a easy LVR of 51%

Applicant:
Without going into further specifics, I have been in my job for 13 odd years, earn good money, no defaults, couple of other investment properties that are positively geared etc.

Other business:
I also had a investment place that had a similar LVR that I was happy to offer as new business and able to get a better rate.

Bank of choice:
I was suggested and decided on a package from Adelaide Bank. I selected a rate of 2.89% fixed for 5 years (Was a great product). For some reason their rates were cheaper for investment loans than they would be for OO loans. I was told that all banks are under the pump, but this is the best product for the timeframe that I was working with.

Hiccups along the way:
Adelaide Bank had Toll come around and perform the ID verification process. This meant that there was a guy come to my house, take photos of my ID, Photos of me, and presumably say that I am who I said I am.
This was completed and submitted, however after a couple of weeks it bounced back as there was a typo on the data, and they needed to be reinspected. To his credit, Pete was going to come to my house that night and do the job, however, I thought that we were pushing it with time and offered to meet him closer to his work, during business hours in the hope that it would be submitted that day. All along, I was cognisant, and made my stress about the timeframe known. I was offered one other lender (Macquarie), but told that rate was no good and it would be about the same time now anyway, and I was assured all would go through

One week out from settlement I started to get quite nervous and spoke with a second broker. I explained the time pressures that I was on. The bank that had been submitted to, as well as the rate.

The new broker was unable to find the same product for that rate. I know that the rate/product existed a I saw it with my own eyes, however when I went back to confirm, the rate had now increased from 2.89 for 5 years fixed, to 3.29 (maybe 3.39) for the same time period - Not such a great deal.

I called Pete and asked where we stood with this. He told me that Adelaide bank does have a free rate-lock program, but could not tell me if that was post approval (which I wasn't), or if I would still qualify as I had started the assessment process. I explained to him that I was pretty disappointed that it was up to me to alert him to the rate change. And what would happen on settlement day if I was approved at that rate, would I have to take it due to the time pressure, or risk crashing settlement - Neither I wanted to do.

Anyways, that is the last I have heard from Sage Lending.

On Friday (Settlement day), I tried calling them and spoke with a female, who gave the indication that she was a paper shuffler there and she could make a call for me. But that Peter had gone on leave and there were no specific instructions on my file.

She could see that it was still awaiting the approval process by Adelaide Bank. I said that wasn't good enough and to get Peter to call me to explain himself.

In the meantime, I had to delay settlement. A clause on the court order provides that if settlement can't take place, then the house is to be put on the market. This caused me obvious angst that my good deal was going to go on the open market and I was going to have to pay the ex more. This was further heighted by the fact that the ex's lawyer was saying that is what they were going to pursue

As it turns out, my family lawyer was able to explain that even if it was placed on the market, and got 5mil, I would still have to pay the ex the same amount.

After a bit of backward and forwards, we were able to delay settlement a week. And it cost me penalty interest.

The new broker was able to receive a conditional approval (subject to val), within days and successfully settled. The program that he used (perhaps Infinity) displayed all of the SLA's with Pepper (and others) at a 1 day SLA.

TBH, seeing that program, I couldn't believe how I ran in to time pressures

Anyways, that's my review - and I am sure not indicative of how your experience might be/have been

 

Fair call. Pepper finance.

Can’t quite remember the rate, but 2.35 ish, variable.

One week out, I required a quick settlement with the ability to move to another financier if a deal with a longer sla was more attractive.

 

Just on this bit, I know the program, yes it shows the SLA's for all lenders but they are wildly inaccurate so they should not be taken seriously. The program is not updated often enough to keep up with the changing SLA's (would need to be weekly at a minimum but most are not even monthly) Most lenders can't even keep up with their changing SLA's on their own websites, let alone a third party provider.

 

Happy to accept that the times may be out, however not going to accept, that when there is a time pressure of 40 days, a suitable solution can not be located. Even a 14 or 21 day sla would have given heaps of wriggle room.

 

I'm finding that some clients want to chase the best rate, which is fair enuf. Most of these have very long turnaround times, and/or very pedantic with paperwork (as Adelaide is), so I warn the client that it will be slow and frustrating. Yeah, yeah all good they say. Til they are asked to re do things or are asked stupid questions, and there has been no progress for a week. Then i get hit with the "You're too slow, this is unprofessional, etc" when i have to remind them of the conversation we had in the initial meeting.
Perhaps the broker should've had this conversation with you (if they didnt) and choose speed over rate like the second broker did.
Great that you had a good outcome in the end but sounds very stressful. I went over on my Orders too and it was a nightmare.

 

I've had the same experience with Sage Lending. Also decided to go with them because of the activity on the forum.

A simple pre approval with the big 4, took more than 9 weeks. (About 4 weeks since first contact, for Sage lending to actually submit the application, and 5 weeks for preapproval, and this was also only done after multiple calls and followups - should have been my first hint).

Every tiny thing I had to call Sage Lending about to get done. Ie things like: 'I will send you the link to upload documents today'. One week later no link. Call and follow up. Pretty much every promise that was being made, eg 'let me look into this and get back to you' wasn't being kept unless I followed up several days later, and then again multiple times.

I decided not to leave a negative review as I figured I may just have been an outlier, given Sage Lending's prominence on the forum.

 

Totally get that, just wanted to point out that specific bit can be misleading

 

Appreciate the frustration.

Putting some context for borrowers across PC (not commenting on your specific case), but a general market comment for observers and participants in credit market at the moment:

• Delayed settlements aren't as unusual at the moment as in the past, the AFR/SMH has it being reported everywhere. You are certainly not alone in frustrations with obtaining credit at the moment
• Bank SLA platforms show how long it takes for a bank to assess an application. Not how long to get an approval. Some banks will show up in the 'green category' for most at the moment - i.e. quite fast (e.g. Adelaide) But that doesn't mean getting an approval is quick.

• Some applications could require multiple-touches to approve. Banks ask questions, lots more of them, then other times in the past.
• For those experienced with these banks, they'll likely know that some approval processes are trickier. It's quite rare for an experienced broker to recommend non-banks like Pepper as first best for a situation like this unless there was a specific need to. Larger offerings (like Adelaide) on the other hand are often used given their niches, presence, cost and and presence in mainstream market.
• Even those with fast approvals often have ridiculous certification timeframes at the moment (perhaps hit by logistical Covid impacts in India) - 10 business days + from the biggest players. Many are simply certifying a couple days prior to settlement (missing doc/minor paperwork missing can cause a delay)
• Some banks have 3 hour hold times to simply speak to them and try and push things along.
• Even valuers are reporting doubling the amount of workload and coming out slower.

Overall, bank processes, delays, logistical issues offshore, and rampant credit demand is causing very slow approval times across banks and making settlements more difficult to meet than any time in previous cycles.

 

@Redom I really don’t see why you are commenting, aside from a fellow broker of yours is being exposed.

I am well aware that it is a busy period, I am well aware that SLA is based on the time that it is assessed - not approved.

My review was based on the fact that despite the timeframe that I was working with, I was directed to a lender - that for my circumstances - was clearly an error.

Maybe I can ask you a question, would you have taken the same path as Sage, or would you have selected a different lender that would have suited my circumstances?

Otherwise, call it for what it was

 

What I have learnt is that finances and settlements rarely go through without delays, obstacles or stressful moments.
In the whole scheme of things you had to pay some penalty interest. How much did you pay Peter? That's right you probably didn't - because it is the bank that pays him after he spends numerous hours trying to help you achieve your aims - and as you changed brokers he was not paid one cent for any of the leg work he did on your behalf.

Where is your self-reflection? Did you ring yourself and have a conversation about how disappointed you are with your own imperfections and failings? Did you find a forum to share your ills with the world? Could you have sought assistance from a broker prior to getting the order? Did you have all your documents and financials ready to go? What delays were caused by your decisions or inability to make decisions? Was ensuring you settled exactly on x date your number one priority when you spoke with Peter - or was it 3rd or 4th down the list? Did you change brokers because of your impatience?

I am not affiliated with Sage lending. However, I have ridden the rollercoaster many times with my broker, sometimes comfortably, sometimes stressfully and sometimes irrationally to be honest. At the end of the day we need to remember that these are human beings, doing their best to help us achieve our goals.

 

Owlet - thanks for your comments

Yes - Prior to getting the settlement, I had spoken with Peter, so we had a plan of attack.

Was the settlement date the first priority? Yes it was. So no issue there.

Did I have to pay penalty interest, sure did. Was it a lot? Not at all, prob under $50 truth be told.

however, where the grief lies is, I had the other side, pointing to the order, and the clause (usual clause) that in the event that the place can’t be settled in time, that it goes on the market. And that’s what they wanted to do.

So quite a bit of stress, because like I said, I got the place for a steal and this was looking like it would be undone. Let alone the lawyers fees for the stuffing around.

Did I pay? Absolutely not, what sort of price do you think I should pay for such a service. There was this deal and two others in refinance that could have been his.

Did I speak to Peter to voice my displeasure? Well I tried, see on settlement day, I spoke with his assistant. It wasn’t her fault what had happened and asked her to get Peter to call me. Never heard from him.

Sent him and email, best he could do is say that Adelaide bank would go out the rate after all, didn’t have the professionalism, nor courtesy to call me.

So why am I here? Because I found Peter solely thru this forum. He sounded like he knew his stuff, has a great rep etc.

This is notice for others that might be in a similar position (be it with Peter or anyone else from the forum), that a forum persona is by no way a representation of their professionalism or ability to get the job done

 

A few things to add to this thread.

I used Peter about 15 years ago and he was good *back then*. Last year my brother was looking for a broker and I recommended him. Apparently my brother got terrible customer service (along similar lines to the issues listed above) and pulled the pin and found a new broker before he got in too deep. He was scathing about Peter's practice, customer service, engagement etc....

I bought a new (higher end) PPOR earlier this year - one of the bigger loans your average broker would see. I'd outgrown Peter 15 years ago and had a higher end broker who did my CIP loans for me 5-10 years ago. I tried to use him again but he was so terrible and late with his engagement (never replying to emails, one line SMSes and ignoring. my structuring questions) so I ended up using a very green broker who had only been in the game a year or so. Technically very weak but would fall over himself to service me. Call me anytime, day or night, on weekends, or weekdays. I had to micro manage a bit, and hold his hand on structuring points, but to me it was much better off getting a hungry and keen set of arms and legs than an overworked guy who wouldn't give me a sliver of his time. Was a much better solution. Win win.

I'm not sure if the industry pay has shrunk so many of the older folks leverage themselves too much and service suffers, or people just live off of their tails and stop giving a ****. But you need to be very careful. And high profile brokers often give terrible (or worse) service.

Anyway my $0.02.

 

What does this have to do with the review of the MB?

 

Feel pretty good actually - do you comment on all threads about buying under market?

Why would this be any different as a negotiation?

 

These reviews are extremely important and I hope for the sake of transparency and fairness this thread does not get deleted.

I had similar scenario with another MB on this forum. I moved on

I now have an excellent MB, who has never posted on this forum.

I think people can get complacent as Forums can provide ongoing stream of clients and its too easy money?? I could be wrong, just my observation

Also it takes courage to post an honest review.

We need to be honest so we all benefit and the business owner understands he/she needs to improve and be accountable for their actions

I am not bagging brokers but lets keep everyone honest

 

We used Pete a few years ago to set up our first ever home loan. At the time we felt his customer service was good and he mad the daunting process of dealing with banks somewhat easier. My impression though is that he is under staffed and can't handle the work load he has. Things seemed to always come down to the wire and were done at the absolute last moment.

After the loan was settled though, it became virtually impossible to get even a basic email response from him, we were lucky to get 1 short response for every 10 emails that were sent. In the end we refinanced ourselves as it was clear he didn't care for keeping our business.

 

There might be more in this than at first pass. I know people in professional services who have been there a long time and are no longer hungry for new business and 'pick and choose' based on what they ' prefer '. That neans they judge their customers rather than aim to please. If u don't please them u get poor service etc. Until u leave.

Younger ones tend to be hungrier and more conscious of their on line reputation and cred.

I realise the age ist tone of my post. Just disclosing ..... i am old!