'Reverse Living' development - thoughts?

Discussion in 'Development' started by housechopper2, 18th Nov, 2016.

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  1. housechopper2

    housechopper2 Well-Known Member

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    Has anyone here developed and sold 'reverse living' townhouses before? i.e. bedrooms and bathroom downstairs and kitchen/living upstairs. Did they sell easily? Who was the predominant buyer?

    I am considering a site in Melbourne (south east suburbs) where I can build 4 units (2 bed, 1 bath), but my draftsman advises they could only be approved if we use a 'reverse living' arrangement. This change has apparently been brought about by the new changes to the planning scheme requiring greater private open space.

    The predominant 2bdr units in the area are the traditional design with bedrooms upstairs and living downstairs, so I am concerned these might be too 'different' to sell for a good price. Also, whether the council would approve this floor plan.
     
  2. Gockie

    Gockie Life is good ☺️ Premium Member

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    I'd possibly only go for it if the upstairs offered great views... otherwise for me it's just too weird.
     
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  3. LifesGood

    LifesGood Well-Known Member

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    I found that it generally rules out downsizers, and most people like to at least see a dumb waiter. If there's a nice view it's a good option, but be sure to check comparable sales in the area and see if that product is the right fit.
     
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  4. Marg4000

    Marg4000 Well-Known Member

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    Agree with Gockie. Only reason would be for views.

    We stayed in a townhouse like this once on the Great Ocean Road, didn't like it.
    It had a deck, but no real connect to the courtyard and outdoor area below.
    We seemed to spend an awful lot of time going up and down the stairs.
    Marg
     
  5. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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    I sold DA to builder in Melb reverse living design, the only way we could fit 8 on the site

    IMO something like this needs to be close to rail as your market is limited.
     
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  6. wombat777

    wombat777 Well-Known Member

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    I'm thinking of doing a variation on the theme ( 3-level
    Townhouses ). Target market is students and younger people. Should be able to cope with stairs.
     
  7. 380

    380 Well-Known Member

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    It's pretty common thing in Melbourne property development scene.

    Just calculate lesser resale value for reverse living.
     
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  8. Westminster

    Westminster Tigress at Tiger Developments Business Member

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    Young people tend to not mind it as much but you are likely to put off most of the downsizer or families with kids market so have a look at your demographics. Families with kids are less likely to go for a 2 bedder so that's less of a worry than missing out on the down sizers.
    Is there room to mix it up on the project site? Could you do 1 or 2 of them in the traditional layout with living on the bottom and then reverse living the rest?
    If you dropped the project down to 3 instead of 4 how do the sums work out? I'm guessing with 3 you could do 3 or 4 bedders
     
  9. Joynz

    Joynz Well-Known Member

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    Also, will the living areas have clear glass or will you need to have the outlook obscured with screens etc to prevent overlooking?
     
  10. Jess Peletier

    Jess Peletier Mortgage Broker & Finance Strategy, Aus Wide! Business Member

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    Unless the views are amazing I'd avoid - getting groceries up the stairs is a PITA, up and down with small kids can be dangerous.

    It's just not very practical. For beachfront I'd consider but most likely not a TH dev.
     
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  11. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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    It would be really interesting to find out what re agents have to say about this product in this area.
    Also, 1 bathroom may also limit your market, unless of course its common in this area?
     
  12. Marg4000

    Marg4000 Well-Known Member

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    Totally agree.

    With living areas on two levels, at least an extra toilet on the non-bathroom level would be essential.

    That was one if the issues we had with the town house we stayed in, the only bathroom was with the bedrooms on the ground floor. An upstairs toilet and wash basin would have made staying there very much easier.
    Marg
     
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  13. housechopper2

    housechopper2 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks all for your feedback - very helpful. The site is only 600m distance to a train station, and views are not a consideration. The area is dominated by FHB's and investors. Initial feedback from RE agents is that they can sell reverse living arrangements, usually to young people or investors, but usually go for 5-10% less than the traditional configuration. I'll ask my planner if we can get one 3bdr and two x 2bdr on the site in the 'normal' layout and report back!
     
  14. Tufan Chakir

    Tufan Chakir Well-Known Member

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    That's just poor design. Should always have a WC/Powder room at least on the Living level!
     
  15. Tufan Chakir

    Tufan Chakir Well-Known Member

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    I'm finding that they are acceptable in selected locations. It's the location which is the driver more than anything else. By the sound of it, your location would suit.
    The "new" planning controls in some zones were intended to prevent multi-units, or at least reduce density, adversly affecting yeild. Reverse living has been the industry response
    worth a go - just make sure they are designed well and the decks/balconies not fully enclosed due to overlooking prevention
     
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  16. housechopper2

    housechopper2 Well-Known Member

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    Update: I spoke to the council about their likelihood of approving a 4 unit site with reverse living arrangement. They are apparently not keen on them because of 'excessive screening' (we would have to screen to prevent overlooking). Whilst I think we might be able to push them to approve, I am not keen on proceeding as there are not enough comparables in the area, and this is our first development.

    The site stacks up with 4 units with traditional layout only, 4 with reverse living makes it marginal, and reducing to 3 townhouses doesn't work either as its a lower priced neighbourhood.

    Moving on now to find a 3 unit TH site in the same area that we can build to the traditional layout!
     
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  17. Tufan Chakir

    Tufan Chakir Well-Known Member

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    To be honest, it's not up to the Council to "like" or "not like". If the solution meets the Rescode Standards, it is "deemed to comply"
    But I suppose the point the Council staff are trying to make (and they shouldn't be overstepping) is that screening of the decks can result in a pretty ordinary outcome from a market perspective, unless it's done really well
     
    Marg4000 likes this.

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