Replacing a stormwater manhole cover

Hi all!

I'm brand new and unsure if this is the right discussion to be posting under, but here goes. Sorry it's long, but we need the 'wisdom of the crowd'.

We have owned a modest residential property at Forest Lake, Brisbane, since January 1994. It was built early in the peace for that part of the development, October 1993. Ours was one of the first four houses built in our street, and we were its first owners after the bloke who built it. It is a zero-lot-line property, common in the suburb. So, not a big property.

As we grow older, we're learning a lot more about property-ownership. Things we'd have loved to have known when we were a lot younger ... to better inform our buying ( ).

OK - that's a brief intro.

An old cement manhole cover out the front of the property has developed a fist-sized hole at the edge and needs replacing. It is located either exactly on our front boundary, or possibly just on the footpath side of it. I'm uncertain about that boundary, as our house has never had never had a front fence.

Thinking the cover was a Queensland Urban Utilities sewer cover, I called them out. The guy looked at it and said "It's either Council's or private. Get Council to have a look at it." I got a Council bloke out. (He conversationally informed me he lived in Forest Lake also). He identified the cover as a private one. I'd established with the QUU guy it covered a stormwater, rather than a sewage, inspection-pit. I asked the BCC guy "What did I do now?" He could only suggest I ask the rear neighbour to chip in for the new cover. One could be obtained from Bunnings. (Although my research so far suggests Bunnings doesn't stock such things).

Apparently our pit is fairly common across Forest Lake, though I have only seen one other, in a parallel street, and it appears to be inside that property. That said, since much of Forest Lake's land slopes down towards the Lake, I imagine many "uphill" properties must drain downhill under their back neighbours. (Perhaps many pipes connect directly to the gutter pits?)

The land at the rear fence-line of our property is, say, just under a metre higher than our levelled land. The properties along the street behind us slope down from the street level, and it seems evident their stormwater must drain downhill - either through my property or perhaps others' in our side of the street.

In 2015, while digging out a root up the back, I came across a 150 mm pvc pipe running parallel to our back fence (so, running on a NE line). Not long afterwards, I found a similar pipe heading down the SW side of our property (so, at right angles to the former). I haven't followed it along by digging, but I'm assuming it runs on out to the pit in question, from which another 150 mm pipe runs off to the grated BCC stormwater pit in the gutter.

OK, then. The position I'm imagining is this:

1. At least one, but very possibly more than one (judging from the NE pipe) rear property has their stormwater draining through our property.

2. I'm assuming (because I can find no documentation showing this) that these pipes were laid by Delfin before any houses had been built or the builder of our house had given permission to the builder/s of property/ies behind. After 25 years, memory doesn't serve when trying to recall whether the property/ies in the street behind had been built when we bought our house. But I cannot recall we ever had to give permission to have pipes laid through our land, nor can I recall ever seeing the considerable work that would have been involved in laying them.

The questions I have are:

1. If we could obtain a manhole cover at a reasonable price, where can one buy them in Brisbane?

2. If we can obtain one, and wanted to (as the imagined alternatives would seem to involve a lot of trouble and expense) is it a very bad idea to just replace it ourselves?

3. If, as seems, the pit/cover is located on the footpath (though I'd need to know my front line which I don't) how come the BCC wouldn't be responsible?

4. What drawings of our property we hold are few and relate only to works relating to our house. Where can one get drawings of all the infrastructure - or at least the stormwater - that runs through our property?

I appreciate all these questions are naiively put, and there are others I should maybe be asking. But all advice gratefully received.

Cheers

BlazinSaddle

 

Those lids usually have a marker stamp on them to identify the type and model.

I would try Gatic, Durham or other major foundry or drainage-ware supplier.

(Or swap it out in the dead of night )

 

Thanks Scott. I'll have to look at the underside for any clues - there was some writing once on a rectangular recess across the top, but the letters have eroded with time. I'll check out those suppliers and see who's available in Brisbane.

Cheers

BlazinSaddle

 

Smash a hole in it so its unsafe and call BCC.

 

Hi Paul@PFI. Certainly a thought . Unfortunately, it already has a handsome hole that either time, or someone's heavy vehicle, or both, have provided. The BCC don't want to touch it. Mind, if I ever prove it's on council land ...

BlazinSaddle

 

Thanks wylie.

That's certainly a possibility, though I'm wondering how one could access the original survey records. Surely the council would have them? Or State Lands?

Cheers

BlazinSaddle

 

No easements or other lines depicted on title are there ? Unusual to run stormwater through another property without one. What stops you digging down and capping the pipe?

Dial before You Dig ?

 

Don't really see any need to cap the pipe - hasn't bothered us for 25 years. (Didn't know it was there for 25 years ). Re the title, I think that's electronically stored from the documentation we do have. You have to apply to Lands or something. I'll need to dig the file out.

 

In QLD you can have statutory easements. Mate of mine had a block of 4 townhouses and when he went to sell them he found out that he had a neighbours storm water pipe running through the middle of these 4 joined t/houses. He never knew about this pipe and he surmises that it must have been there from before the t/houses were built.

Maybe your pipe is the same where the developer of the land installed all these stormwater pipes but never bothered to register any of them.

There was a discussion about statutory easements in this post.

Buying in Brisbane - Title Encumbrances

 

When you say it’s possibly ‘just’ on the footpath do you mean that it is actually in the footpath (set in the footpath concrete) - and if so by how many millimetres?

I would just find out how much a new cover is and then either pay for it myself or ask council yo help you determine which other properties benefit and approach them.

 

I did dig out the documentation the solicitors sent us during and after the purchase. Various drawings, the contract and so forth. NOWHERE is there a mention of any easement/s. Hmmm.

So, a related but separate issue for another day. (See Handyandy's #10 post).

 

I have discussed with the wife and, although 25 years is a tax on the collective memory, neither of us can recall (a) being asked to permit the laying of the pipe/s (in which case there'd surely be a record of the easement as folk would have been playing by the book, or (b) nor noticing the substantial works that laying of pipe/s through our land would have involved. Hence, we tend to agree with you that pre-laying but not registering of the pipes was what was done.

And many thanks for this - I'll certainly read it.

Cheers

BlazinSaddle

 

Hi Joynz.

I was expressing myself very loosely. By footpath, I mean land between the front boundary of our property and the kerb. It doesn't have a cement footway laid along it (and knowing our council, it's never likely to have). Cemented footways tend to be along the "main drags".

I probably will ask council to help as you suggest, but from past experience, confidence is not high this will be a productive exercise.

Cheers

BlazinSaddlle

 

its always going to be a guess on its location unless you have it surveyed.(and or trace the lines to see where it runs to.)
if it is a private line, the chances are it will be constructed within your property. (or should have been) if the infrastructure is owned by an authority then it will be their responsibility to maintain.

 

Is it 600mm in diameter? Try Tellam at Larapinta. Should set you back around $200ish

 

Hi bmc and Art Vandelay,

Apologies for being tardy - off with the pixies for a bit. I do that .

The "survey my boundaries" seems a need. A mate told me last Friday - admittedly after a wine or two - that if I dug near the corners of my property I'd still find the original survey pegs buried there . I was careful not to say I found that not easy to believe, but if anyone is able to say "Actually, that could be right," I'd be interested.

Art - many thanks. Larapinta isn't far away from us and I will check it out.

Cheers both

BlazinSaddle

 

A quick rejoinder to Handyandy if I could. Are you able to say how your mate resolved this? Did he just have to cop the undeclared easement and inform buyers about it, or register it himself. I appreciate, since it's a mate, you might not be comfortable giving too many details, but I'm interested, apparently being in the same boat.

Cheers

BlazinSaddle

 

how old is your original subdivision, 20... 30 years ? or more.
you may have slim chances of finding any remains of a timber peg, but, you never know your luck in a big city.

if BCC has noted they have NO assets over, through or under your property, i'm guessing that it is probably a private line and pit and it was most likely installed at the time of the original subdivision, and it was to provide the rear lots with a point of discharge. i would even guess that there may be some form of easement over the pipelines from the rear properties. You may not be looking at the correct documentation. Have you viewed the Deposited Plan ?

anyway, its unlikely your neighbours got up in the dead of night and dug a trench down your sideway.

so to save the cost of getting a Surveyor out to provide a report and then, IF, the pit is within the road reserve, then try to get BCC to accept ownership, I would just replace the lid, pour another XXXX and be done with it.