Renovating PPOR in SYD - Plan Feedback

Discussion in 'Renovation & Home Improvement' started by Dsan123, 7th Jun, 2020.

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  1. Dsan123

    Dsan123 Member

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    My wife and I will be moving into our PPOR to live in for the long term. We are currently living with parents and will renovate before moving in, so we would love to hear your feedback on our plan. It is a fairly old yellow brick house, probably built in the 1960s - 1970s, but it had an extension done at back (upper left) around 2000s and a pool at the back.

    Our aim is to renovate to suite our family needs, as well as maximising its resell value in the longer term. Our budget is around $100k, so would love your feedback to see whether this is realistic.

    Our Plan is to:
    • Create an en-suite to the bottom right room using the existing bathroom at the RHS of the house. This bathroom is very old and therefore needs to be fully renovated. We have a 2 yr old daughter and we might potentially have another one in the future, so we would love to have an en-suite near our kids on the right hand side of the house. I think this should also add value to the property.
    • Create an additional bathroom (with a family bathtub) for the kids using the existing laundry and washroom. Again, this will be a brand new bathroom.
    • Renovating the kitchen and adding a breakfast table bench on the wall between the kitchen and the living room at the back.
    • On the ground floor, adding a participation wall to create a laundry room in the garage. Our rotary clothes line currently is located at the back of the existing laundry on the first floor. Understand this might mean we will need to bring the clothes up and down the stairs, but we really want the new bathroom for the kids, so we are happy to put up with this. Alternatively, we can install some cloth lines outside the ground floor or hang the clothes indoor at the room near the back on the ground floor.
    • The current bathroom on the LHS can be used for guests or as an en-suite when my mother-in-law visit us from overseas.

    Love to hear your feedback, especially from those below =) loved your ideas that you have given to other members!

    @wylie @Westminster @Mel Morgan @Sackie

    Thanks!

    EXISTING - First Floor
    Original_First Floor.jpeg

    NEW Plan - First Floor Plan_First Floor.jpeg
    EXISTING - Ground Floor
    Original_Ground Floor.jpeg

    NEW Plan - Ground Floor Plan_Ground Floor.jpeg
     
  2. Mel Morgan

    Mel Morgan Sydney Property Manager Business Member

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    Hi :)

    Can I ask where abouts in Syd is the property?

    My initial thoughts are that the kitchen is awkward with the stairs there (is it open balustrade?) and directly facing the entry door. You also still have quite a small dining area and maybe you'll want a space that can comfortably sit more than 4. Would you consider opening up the kitchen to the lounge/dining and then relocating it into the dining area? Then you can have an island and dining area where the current kitchen is.

    Definitely the ensuite will add value. My next (probably controversial) idea is that I would prefer a bathroom that was easily accessible and less tucked away (esp for young kids). I would reduce the size of the ensuite, turn that bathroom area into a bedroom and put the main bath and maybe a laundry in that existing Northern bedroom area.
     
  3. skater

    skater Well-Known Member

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    Like Mel, I don’t like the position of the bathroom, nor the pokey dining area. Not sure I agree with the position of the bathroom. I’d open up the kitchen as well. I’m away from home on an iPad, so hard for me to really see dimensions.
     
  4. Dsan123

    Dsan123 Member

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    It's at the older area of west pennant hills, near M2. We quite like the school zone and the close access to city buses, as we both work in the city.

    Sorry, I think I have misled you; the stairs should be the other way around, with the entry at the bottom (see picture below). Currently, it is not open balustrade, but definitely agree with you; we are planning to open it up using glass balustrade.

    Agreed that the dining is smaller than we like. My other plan (if budget allows) was to (see attached picture):
    • Open up the i) back living to kitchen ii) existing kitchen to dining
    • Close the front lounge to dining, and move the kitchen there. Would love to get the kitchen out in a corner out of the way especially with children
    • Expand the existing skytube that's around the existing kitchen (new dining) and add more light to the area.
    • We still quite like the living room at the back overseeing the patio/pool, and given it is facing the north/west direction which is brighter.
    I quite like your suggestion of swapping the bathroom and bedroom 3 especially with young kids, but there are some technical issues (which I will address in my reply to skater)

    Planv2_First Floor.jpeg
     
  5. Dsan123

    Dsan123 Member

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    I like the idea of swapping the tucked around bathroom and bedroom 3. However, the roof in the existing Laundry actually slopes towards the window, making the ceiling around that part quite low. Also my wife would prefer a larger en-suite to pamper herself.

    Another reason is cost. I was hoping the current Plan could help keep the costs down by:
    • Minimising relocation of water and drainage points by using the ones that are already in the existing Laundry and Bathroom at the RHS.
    • Minimising moving/adding/removing walls, since my impression is that especially if the wall is load-bearing, then costs might go up substantially due to the hiring of structural engineers, getting council approvals, etc?
    • The new Laundry that's moved to the ground floor would require new water and sewage points. For the new water points, they can be connected to the ones in the bathroom on the LHS upstairs. For the sewage, it can be connected to the existing sewage pipe on the LHS of the house (which is currently used for the bathroom LHS upstairs
    We would love to have Planv2, by opening up the area at the back and moving the kitchen so that it's tucked away and near the windows.

    Another idea that we had was creating a vaulted ceiling in the back living room, but that might be outside our budget at the moment.

    Thanks guys!
     
  6. Gockie

    Gockie Life is good ☺️ Premium Member

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    Hello, this one is isn't too bad, but the kitchen has no visibility into the main living room to the north west.
     
  7. skater

    skater Well-Known Member

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    Version two is better.
     
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  8. Trainee

    Trainee Well-Known Member

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    You really need that corner spa bath? Takes up a lot of space, and new renovations tend to avoid them. Usually the trend is for a smaller bathtub and bigger showers and double sinks. Or no bathtub at all. Its a feels nice to have item that you will not use very often.

    also, where did the laundry go? Arent you going to need one?
     
    Last edited: 8th Jun, 2020
  9. skater

    skater Well-Known Member

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    Laundry is downstairs, at the back of the garage.
     
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  10. Dsan123

    Dsan123 Member

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    Yup, the laundry has moved to downstairs to the garage since currently it's quite long. The garage should still be able to fit comfortably a medium size car and a SUV.

    Good point on the bathtub and the double sink. We haven't locked in the details yet and will probably go for a smaller tub one that uses less water. Will still need one for bathing the kids.
     
  11. Gockie

    Gockie Life is good ☺️ Premium Member

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    Can you put a full bath in the bathroom (I’d sacrifice some of the en-suite space).
    I feel U shaped separated kitchens are outdated, if you can incorporate it into the living space towards the back of the house, it’s better for family togetherness.
     
    Last edited: 8th Jun, 2020
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  12. Dsan123

    Dsan123 Member

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    Noted, any recommendations to the size you had in mind in terms of how big a full bath usually is?

    Also, not sure whether readjusting the wall would also require moving the window from the ensuite.

    Below is the current approx length (bathroom is around 2.8 x 2.6. I also got rid of the corner bath and added an extra sink.
    Screenshot_20200608_085848_pl.planmieszkania.android.jpg
     
  13. Gockie

    Gockie Life is good ☺️ Premium Member

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    A bath is anything from 1400 and up. I believe standard is about 1650. Thanks for your new plan, I am unsure you have enough space between toilet and the shower entrance. If it doesn’t work, use a corner shower.
     
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  14. wylie

    wylie Moderator Staff Member

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    My initial thought is that the bedroom at the back is taking up what I'd want as living area flowing onto the deck.

    I'd make that into a large kitchen. I cannot easily see the dimensions, but it may be long enough for a big kitchen and you might have room to turn what is a bathroom into a butler's pantry where the bathroom sits now? (I've not drawn walls, as I'm unsure of dimensions.)

    I'd turn the front living room into a main bedroom with ensuite behind.

    Dining moves to near the stairs.

    Doors to the deck right across the back wall.

    I'd turn the current ensuite into a powder room for visitors and family.

    Keep the current bathroom where it is. I've removed the toilet because you have a powder room next door, but you could keep it there if you want a fourth toilet in the house (but I wouldn't).

    This idea means you lose that front living room but with such a huge space downstairs, you probably have options to have a second rumpus downstairs for teenagers, or kids gaming.

    Also, if you don't need four bedrooms, you could use that front bedroom near the front stairs as a snug or TV room.

    We're building townhouses that are three bedrooms, with a media room that could easily be used as a bedroom.

    We don't have a second living area upstairs at home but have it downstairs. We also have main bathroom upstairs (no ensuite), a powder room off our laundry that is rarely used, and a second full bathroom downstairs that nobody uses now the kids are not at home. But when we had the kids at home, one son was in the downstairs bedroom and that was where the pool table was and the gaming consoles, TV etc and that downstairs bathroom was used by them.

    When we had three kids here at home, the downstairs bathroom was used because they spent a lot of time in the downstairs living room, running in from playing in the yard etc. Even with just one bathroom upstairs, they still didn't really use the powder room. Only two of our three toilets were used really.

    Anyway, that's what I'd look at doing.

    Reno ideas.jpg
     
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  15. Archaon

    Archaon Well-Known Member

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    is the bathroom 2.8m wide?

    Bathroom.JPG
     
    Last edited: 8th Jun, 2020
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  16. Mel Morgan

    Mel Morgan Sydney Property Manager Business Member

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    I also considered this as its the best use of living space and I love the big open plan space, but isn't friendly on the budget.

    Yep the 2nd plan is much better in my opinion.
     
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  17. Trainee

    Trainee Well-Known Member

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    is that enough space to open the shower door?

    if you swap the shower and the toilet...
     
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  18. wylie

    wylie Moderator Staff Member

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    If you have 1.2m long glass wall in the shower, you can use a sliding glass door. Ours is 950mm x 1200mm and I love that there's no swing door that can hit anything. More expensive though.

    Or arrange it so that you don't have a shower door at all, if the space allows for that.
     
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  19. Dsan123

    Dsan123 Member

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    Your plan is solid (as always). I agree opening up the area at the back is much nicer! It adds much better "flow" to the property and would add value to the property in the long run. I agree that the playing area downstairs might probably enough, but since my kid is very young, my wife would like to keep the front playing area/reading area upstairs where most of us will hang out at the evening.

    I came up with the following Plan v3, inspired by your ideas, and hopefully to keep costs under our budget
    • I am leaving the RHS mostly unchanged. The only thing I changed was making a bigger bathroom using the existing bathroom and washroom. This way, I don't need to add the Laundry downstairs.
    • I have kept the bathroom on the LHS as it was
    • Moved the En-suite to where the Dining was
    • Opened up the area at the back and the area where the kitchen was, and moved the Kitchen to top left corner.
    This way, I am planning of make use of the savings from the "extra bathroom" and "extra laundry" to fund for the opening up of the area at the back. Not sure whether this works but definitely worth exploring!

    So rather than:
    • V1 Plan: renovating 1 kitchen, 1 bathrom; adding 1 laundry 1 bathroom
    • V3 Plan: relocating kitchen; relocating bedroom for the ensuite; renovating 1 bathroom.

    Location of the Master Bedroom
    I wish to get everyone's opinion on the location of the Master bedroom in Plan v3, making sure that this plan is not detrimental to the re-sell value of the property.
    • Is it a big issue if the door location of the Master bedroom is near the dining?
    • Would buyers in general much prefer an ensuite near the bedroom of their kids (e.g. RHS)? Or wish to get as far from them as possible lol...
    I guess given the Plan v3 has only one ensuite, my MIL might need to share the bathroom with the kids when she visits. Hence I will add a double sink in the bigger RHS bathroom.


    Planv3_First Floor.jpeg
     
  20. Dsan123

    Dsan123 Member

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    What would be a good location to play the TV cabinet in the living room around the back once it's opened up? It seems windows on the RHS of the room might make the placement quite difficult.