Religion and sexism

Discussion in 'Living Room' started by spludgey, 28th Oct, 2015.

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  1. D.T.

    D.T. Specialist Property Manager Business Member

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    In my opinion, science is the only facts there are. Everything is measurable, provable, repeatable.
     
    D.T., 2nd Nov, 2015
    #81
  2. Xenia

    Xenia Well-Known Member

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    My ideal partner - Marry me!

    Oh you are already married? So am I - damn!

    men these days are just so ambitious, people like inertia are out there and I happened to marry an ambitious one who wants to be equal and do what I do. what was I thinking. lol
     
    Xenia, 2nd Nov, 2015
    #82
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  3. inertia

    inertia Well-Known Member

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    I've been back in the workforce for a bit over a year now. I could easily stop that. If you would like to support the lifestyle to which I would like to become accustomed, I'm open to offers.

    cheers,
    Inertia
     
    inertia, 2nd Nov, 2015
    #83
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  4. Xenia

    Xenia Well-Known Member

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    NO WAY! not everything, no where near everything. We have only scratched the surface of Quantum physics - new subatomic particles hypothesis, not measured, not proved or seen.
    On the other scale the expansion and creation of the universe - humans have no idea.
    We don't yet have the technology to interact with any possible beings from other solar systems, , we can only guess and make up stories about but we DONT KNOW. Can't measure, can't prove.
    Humans are still killing each other, we have a LONG way to go to higher evolution, we are all infant beings with blinkers on who know nothing!
     
    Xenia, 2nd Nov, 2015
    #84
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  5. Esel

    Esel Well-Known Member

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    I think germain greer would agree with you on gender not being a social construct. Didnt she recenrly say the kardashian dad wasnt a real woman because his sex wasnt female, regardless of him choosing to identify his gender as female?

    Theres a semantic difference between the how the terms sex and gender are used. sex refers to the biological difference and gender to the social and cultural differences which i dont see as uniform or fixed. i think the extent to which gender differences are caused by nature or nurture is still up for debate.
     
    Esel, 2nd Nov, 2015
    #85
  6. Esel

    Esel Well-Known Member

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    Massive, vague, ideological, sweeping generalisation.

    but it actually reads like you have a very us and them, black and white view of the world. See your quote above.

    I dont think you do really respect your friends if you believe their thinking is biased, childish and unscientific.
     
    Esel, 2nd Nov, 2015
    #86
  7. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Founder Staff Member

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    Actually on this one I agree with Xenia.

    We tend to hold on dearly to things we "know" as facts - great undeniable truths which provide us the bedrock from which our world-view is derived.

    In my experience, this is especially true for younger people and for those who are less well educated although please be clear that I'm not suggesting any people in this discussion are either of these - it's just a general observation I've made.

    My point is that if you live long enough and pay close enough attention to the wonders of modern science and to modern scientific theory - you experience world-shifting changes in scientific opinion on certain subjects.

    Things that were held to be unquestionable facts turn out to be far more complicated than what we believed - if not completely wrong, then at least different - and certainly much more confusing than the simple "fact" we previously held to be true.

    This is especially true when it comes to understanding the human body. As much as modern medicine and health care has increased our life-span enormously, when you get down to the little details - it becomes painfully obvious that we still have very little understanding about how many parts of the human body work.

    How is it that in this new century of scientific wonder and serious planning for sending humans to Mars and computers in our pockets far more powerful than room-sized computers of only a couple of decades ago and the ability to grow our own human tissue in a laboratory and replace body parts with bionic replacements - how is it that we can still have an official diagnosis of "unexplained infertility". How is it that we understand so little about how the human body creates life even as we are able to effectively create life in a laboratory? How is it that we still know so little about why some people get cancer or develop other illnesses?

    Don't even get me started on dietary advice when we are told one thing for decades and then the scientific community turns around and starts telling us completely different things and indeed almost every other month there is a turn-about in what was previously considered to be "best advice".

    Then when you get to social issues and dealing with the human mind - if you understand how the "scientific method" for investigating these issues actually works, and if you've ever done post-graduate research where you investigate subjects like "ethics in research" you start to understand the massive issues that arise from even trying to observe human behaviour. Similarly when you understand how easily statistics or survey results can be manipulated to give a different result, simply by asking the same question in a different way.

    I think Xenia summarised it quite well - although it should be noted that the assertion that "there can be no facts" is not intended to ignore simple observations such as "I have a hand; I picked up a pen; she touched my arm" - it deals with more complex ideas such as how we interpret the world around us when simple observation can (and generally should) be questioned.

    As much as we want our world to be clearly defined in black-and-white with known answers to all the questions, it is my experience that life and everything in it, is always found in the murky-grey between the black and the white.
     
    Simon Hampel, 2nd Nov, 2015
    #87
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  8. Esel

    Esel Well-Known Member

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    Even if the gender wage gap or any other equality issue, is largely due to an individual's decisions, these choices dont happen in a vacuum. There's often structural and social obstacles and pressures.

    All sorts of groups report and experience discrimination or inequality in the workplace ; older workers, younger workers, people with disabilities, women, ethnic and religious minorities, LGBT, fat people, short people, sexy people... In most cases its not legal. Still exists.

    Absolutely. Its not just women who are disadvantaged by the current rules of the sandpit.
     
    Esel, 2nd Nov, 2015
    #88
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  9. Azazel

    Azazel Well-Known Member

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    Sexist!
    That's interesting, thanks for your input from the male perspective.
    I know at least 3 stay at home Dad's, would be interesting to see the difference in their pay when they go back to work.
     
    Azazel, 3rd Nov, 2015
    #89
  10. inertia

    inertia Well-Known Member

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    Interestingly (perhaps?) I was not looking for a decent pay. I wasn't even looking for a full time job - but finding a part time job in a market I was not familiar with and had virtually no connections (hadn't worked in Newcastle for about 15 years, and not in IT), was not happening. I settled for looking for a full time helpdesk job, and started getting interviews.

    If I had my time over, I would have tried harder to find part time work from earlier on in my stay-at-home period.

    Cheers,
    Inertia
     
    inertia, 3rd Nov, 2015
    #90
  11. THX

    THX Well-Known Member

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    Of course there are facts in science. You have it backwards. Science is about measuring, testing, reproducing these facts. Our constraints in instruments, understanding or awareness do not change the facts. It just means we have yet to fully comprehend them or discover them.
     
    Last edited: 3rd Nov, 2015
    THX, 3rd Nov, 2015
    #91
  12. Phantom

    Phantom Well-Known Member

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    Agree. Religion and culture go hand in hand. in some places around the world. That applies to many religions.
     
    Phantom, 6th Nov, 2015
    #92
  13. Steven Ryan

    Steven Ryan Well-Known Member

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    An intelligent discussion on a serious topic with people from both sides of the fence:

     
    Steven Ryan, 6th Nov, 2015
    #93
  14. THX

    THX Well-Known Member

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    Islam is the religion and culture of majority of Muslims. They really are one and the same. It applies to few religions actually, few religions are infused into day to day life to the extent Islam is.
     
    THX, 6th Nov, 2015
    #94
  15. sanj

    sanj Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Huh? Islam is not the culture of majority of muslims but it is the religion of all muslims. I think you migjt be a bit confused.

    As for cultural differences, muslims in malaysia vs saudi vs america are hugely different from a cultural point of view, just like Christians from australia, nigeria and say serbia would be.

    A huge % of malay muslims really dont approve of behaviour /mannerisms of some arab muslims, in particular the OTT devout saudis. It is simply incorrect and in fact pretty ignorant say that most muslims are the same culturally.
     
    sanj, 6th Nov, 2015
    #95
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  16. SonOfTrigger

    SonOfTrigger Well-Known Member

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    This is likely a function of gender recruitment ratios by firms, by city. Top tier and mid-tier legal have lockstep - all grads are hired at the same salary (set by city) and progress for the next two years at pre-determined rates. It's post this point that salary discrepancy begins based on performance, practice group and negotiation skills.
     
    SonOfTrigger, 6th Nov, 2015
    #96
  17. THX

    THX Well-Known Member

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    Yes Islam is not just a religion but a culture. Hell even Muslims describe it as thus. Not sure of your argument against it. Few other religions infuse so many aspects of a persons life.

    http://www.onislam.net/english/ask-...slam.html&gws_rd=cr&ei=buk7Vt_4A8vD0gSIs6KoAg
     
    THX, 6th Nov, 2015
    #97
  18. Azazel

    Azazel Well-Known Member

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    It's just a religion.
    Just like christianity, judaism, scientology...
    I'm anti-religion and I don't give 2 flying fig trees if someone tries to call it racism.
    Froot loops with their invisible sky giants, justifying their closed minded ways and child abuse.
     
    Azazel, 6th Nov, 2015
    #98
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  19. THX

    THX Well-Known Member

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    Not quite.
    Agreed.
    Agreed.
     
    THX, 6th Nov, 2015
    #99
  20. HUGH72

    HUGH72 Well-Known Member

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    +1
    All illusions.
     
    HUGH72, 6th Nov, 2015
    #100
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