(QLD) Retaining wall - who is responsible for cost

Hi all, this is an issue for an IP in Logan, QLD so I would love some advice from those experienced in this region as each state varies in its legislation/approach.

My neighbour had gone ahead and replaced the retaining wall and fence between our properties, and is now seeking compensation for half of the costs. I am trying to work out how much I should really pay.

He did attempt to contact the previous owners before getting a quote for the works, but they ignored him and then I bought the property. The works were carried out shortly after the property settled and now he's found me and is seeking compensation from me.

We don't have any documentation on the origins of the retaining wall, and whose side of the boundary it sits on, but after some research and speaking with QCAT, my theory is that the retaining wall was originally put in place because developers excavated part of my neighbour's block to achieve a flatter block (see picture), and my property does not really benefit from it.

So I don't believe that I need to pay for the retaining wall part, but I am happy to pay for half of the fence as this is normally shared responsibility.

Meanwhile, my neighbour believes I should be responsible for the entire wall because I am on the high side, the wall is retaining my soil and I am benefiting from it. The wall is "collapsing onto his property" and he is being nice by only asking me to pay half, and not the entire cost. I don't believe he's right.

Also, as the fence sits on top of the retaining wall, I am wondering if QCAT will deem me responsible for half the wall, as you can't replace the fence without replacing the wall (or can you???). I am also wondering if my property does benefit from the wall and whether I am missing something.

I don't really want to get surveyors/lawyers involved or go to tribunal, so just wanted to seek advice on here, and go to my neighbour with an offer and a solid argument behind it. Any thoughts on what my contribution should be?

 

Why didn’t he re-use the existing fence?

 

looks like the neighbouring land has been "cut" and your lot has been retained

so who benefits the most ?

its open to interpretation

so in the interest of good faith I would say 50%

(and by the way, it looks like a neat job)

 

Here is some information that may help! Brisbane Retaining wall and fence - BCC

 

Sorry, I uploaded the wrong photo for the before shot. I'll delete it. The old fence was timber and really old.

 

Yes! My old neighbour purchased a vacant block beside me a year after we purchased. When I purchased our property I was told we were owed half the cost of the fence when property was built on as previous owner hadn’t paid. It just didn’t feel right to ask new owner for money!

It doesn’t seem fair in this case to be charged either!

 

I had a similar issue with a nsw property. Councils stand was that the fence was 50/50. And the retaining wall was the owner who had their land cut by the developers. As discussed in other posts it can vary from LGA and states. I would contact your local council.

 

@wylie good points. I've just gone back to revisit the sequence of events and realised the works were carried out shortly after I settled, so I guess it is on me.

Re the timber issue - what are the implications? The original retaining wall looks like timber too.

 

The timber doesn’t last past about 15 years. Colorbond has retaining products

 

the specs of the work done:

29 meters of new 60cm high retaining wall and 24m of 1.8 colourbond fence above wall,
Wall constructed from Colourbond steel posts and treated pine sleeper wailers.

 

Yeah I spoke to Logan Council and they weren't able to offer anything meaningful. Spoke to QCAT and landed where I am now. Re the wall it's all down to who benefits from it and mayyybe how necessary replacing the wall was when replacing the fence.

"QCAT can make orders about carrying out fencing work that includes work on a retaining wall only if the repair of the fence is dependent on the work for the retaining wall."

 

Regardless of anything, if your neighbor didn’t have an agreement with you on sharing costs before they commenced work, you don’t owe them anything.

No court, no law will side with them if they unilaterally decided to build a retaining wall on their own without seeking your permission.

Ignore them completely - they are just trying to grab whatever they can from you! If they take you to QCAT, ask them to produce an agreement on the fence/retaining wall that you were part of!

 

I didn't include this in the original post coz I didn't want to make it too long, but QCAT said normally the claimant has to prove that they provided the other party advance notice OR have a good explanation why they failed to do so, before QCAT will even look at the case.

The neighbour did email the previous owners' selling agent and property manager, asking them to let the new owner (me) know about this matter once it was sold, but no one ever passed anything onto me. They could have just waited to reach me first before doing any work, but they wanted to do the work urgently as their house is up for auction soon. So I guess their case doesn't look good because they'd just jumped the gun for their own benefit.

To be honest I feel really sorry for them, as they'd been trying to make contact since September and experienced many frustrations, and I am happy to pay for what I should be responsible for. There was already a retaining wall and fence and they were both super old and needed to be replaced. But I just want to make sure I am not overpaying.

 

the neighbor approved the works to go ahead long before you became the owner.
He would have had to sign and agree to pay the FULL cost prior to the works being started

This ^^^^^

Called "Notice to fence"

Then call up/email a fence company and ask how much to install 24m of 1.8 colourbond fence in your area, divide by 2 and make an offer via email (keep it all in writting, PLEASE).

Friendly neighbors are great, but this guy is taking the ****.....
That's NOT a retaining wall, putting boards between colorbond posts (plinth boards) do not make a retaining wall
When the posts rot out/rust in a few short years the entire structure will come down
There's proper 10-12mm H section galvanized posts designed and engineered for this
Ask him for his engineering design, this wall/fence was never a good design or idea

I wouldn't pay a cent, it's not built to last

 

Are you a new investor or just a very generous person?

They did it because they are putting their house on the market and would probably get lot more back than they spent. You don’t need to subsidise it and there may be issues with tax deductibility of this expense as well as you won’t be able to get an invoice for work that’s already done.

 

If you put their nose out of joint by refusing to pay, the pain will be short lived as they'll be gone once the property sells.

Your contribution = $0 <best case), worse case 50% of a timber fence.

 

This.

That is not a retaining wall it is a cheaply constructed solution to tidy a property for sale. You will need to replace again in the future as those posts are not structural, they are extremely light weight. If the wall was constructed correctly the fence would be bolted to galv H posts that would have increased the material cost by 25-30%


If it was correctly constructed, I would come to the party but he has only cosmetically replaced it to assist the sale leaving the new owner and you the same problem in the not so distant future. I wouldn’t pay anything based on that.

 

The smallest pressure on those colourbond "posts" will see them bend. The whole fence WILL take on a lean. The only fix is a complete rework. A retaining wall which supports a fence is generally a structural wall embedded into the ground with supporting posts that has the fence then installed over it. Colourbond channel posts will rust out quickly. At the least a 65x65 or 50x50 steel posts should have been used but that also inst a wise design. The fence "posts" are mere frames for the steel sheets and have no structural function at all and cant accept any load.

 

Timber is fine .. but they have just used colorbond fencing post, not even a proper galvanised thicker post.

A proper timber retaining wall set up would last many many years as long as they use thicker sleepers (75-100mm) and galvanised steel joiners reinforced 1/3rd in the ground. I have a 1.5m high timber retaining wall at an IP and it lasted 20+ years and going great.

The above wouldn't even last 2-3 years depending on drainage on higher side.