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Public Holiday Penalty Rates

Discussion in 'Small Business' started by Foxy Moron, 3rd Oct, 2016.

  1. Foxy Moron

    Foxy Moron Well-Known Member

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    Public Holiday in Qld today. I was at a landscape yard first thing this morning getting served by the owner – a hard working guy who I know is doing it a bit tough.

    Come 8.30am his worker turns up for work – a big wave and smile as he gets ready to start for the day. Soon as he is out of earshot the boss says to me……’yeah I’d be happy too if I was on double time and a half today!’. Not in a cynical way rather just matter of fact. But that comment resonated with me all day.

    I know everyone will have their own views on penalty rates for bank holidays and the like. My view is that rates that are way over-blown like this are just ridiculous in this day and age – would like to see them moderated / aligned to standard weekend rates….ie a bit more than Mon-Fri rates, but 2 or 2.5 times is just outrageous for regular daytime tasks such as retail.

    For nurses and emergency service people doing shifts on Christmas day I guess is a bit different to retail, so I can understand a bit extra in those circumstances.

    I later had lunch at fast-food place where I think the regular prices were loaded by a small public holiday surcharge ….maybe 10% or so, which I thought was quite okay. But can you imagine how customers would react if prices of coffees and sandwiches were more than doubled on public holidays ? Yet that’s the sort of levy that unions think is fair enough to impose on small business employers. As we have moved towards a 24/7 economy surely we can be a smarter nation than this.
     
  2. Terry_w

    Terry_w Solicitor, Finance Broker, CTA Business Member

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    But the poor worker was probably on an annual salary of $40k or so full time. These little bonuses help them put food on the table.
     
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  3. Glorion

    Glorion Well-Known Member

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    For my work, our loadings are 50% Saturday, 100% Sunday, 150% public holiday. I work most public holidays and sure as hell wouldn't if the penalty wasn't enough to justify it.

    Would you like to be paid peanuts to forgo family / friend time?
     
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  4. Indifference

    Indifference Well-Known Member

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    No... salaried employees don't get overtime or penalty rates.
     
  5. Bran

    Bran Well-Known Member

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    Yes we do.
     
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  6. Joynz

    Joynz Well-Known Member

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    I had a second job for 5 years - until a few months ago, where I got overtime rates.

    Had to be on call at all hours of the night - you try getting up at 3am to answer the call, which wakes your partner, then driving to the job. Then come home and maybe do it again, or not- you never knew. No predictability. On top of a regular job.

    Was overtime because it required a certain amount of trust and reliability which is hard to outsource to just anyone, so they employed existing employees. One week straight every month - on call from 5pm to 8am.

    Always had to be aware of the phone, couldn't have a glass of wine for the 7 days etc, or leave the city or commit to anything you couldn't drop immediately. Had to leave dinners at restaurants many times.

    If it hadn't paid extra, no one would do it. We did turn about for Xmas and New Year and holidays so people,could,spend it with their family.

    It was double time on Sunday and time and a half on other days. I was worth every cent!
     
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  7. Joynz

    Joynz Well-Known Member

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    Incidentally, in my regular job I do many hours extra a week for no extra payment or time in lieu!

    In the overtime job, was on call 24 hours a day on weekends. But at least I got paid for it!
     
    Last edited: 3rd Oct, 2016
  8. D.T.

    D.T. Adelaide Property Manager Business Member

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    Most shops were closed in Adelaide today.

    Given the option, I bet you there would be people willing to work at standard rates if they were allowed to, and then shops / businesses would have been able to open.

    But because they're not, society misses out.
     
  9. Joynz

    Joynz Well-Known Member

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    Or, maybe 'society' (including business owners and workers) ets to hang around with their loved ones, building relationships that are based on more than shopping together.

    Missing out? I don't think so!
     
  10. Indifference

    Indifference Well-Known Member

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    Generally, no... as that is the key difference between a salary and a wage (hourly rate). Some agreements may include separate compensation for non-reasonable overtime such as additional pay however in many professions this is not the case & at best you might get TOIL.

    Being on a fixed annual salary & getting overtime pay & penalty rates is not the norm as it is with wages.
     
  11. Joynz

    Joynz Well-Known Member

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    I'm pretty sure I was on a salary, a few years ago, when I got penalties for Saturdays.

    I receive an annual salary for a certain number of hours a week (supposedly 38) but I am paid fortnightly with the hourly amount listed. And I get annual leave and sick days paid.

    How would I know if it was wages and not salary?
     
  12. Bran

    Bran Well-Known Member

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    I can't speak for the whole state or country, but as a government employee on salary, Im paid to work x hours per week for y dollars per year. Anything above that - on call, recall, overtime, is paid - at penalty rates.
     
  13. 2FAST4U

    2FAST4U Well-Known Member

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    Holden workers got paid double time and a half today. Personally I think penalty rates should be capped at time and a half.
     
  14. Coota9

    Coota9 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Most salary packages have night/weekend work factored into the TFC base rate and generally don't allow for overtime etc,EBA's will be different for each industry though.

    As for penalty rates/public holiday rates wether you agree with them or not the writing's on the wall that they will be phased out over time.
     
  15. Foxy Moron

    Foxy Moron Well-Known Member

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    Ha ha – that’s exactly the case for many small business owners now that you mention it – happens most weekends tbh. I spent most of the three days worth sorting end of month accounts, super, BAS , mowing, painting and garden maintenance etc. They were just catch-up jobs and compliance issues that don’t earn me an extra cracker but will get me in strife if I overlook, and I cant afford to pay others for these jobs.

    Look good on you for working those extra times and earning the big coin – I would do the same in your shoes – but just like any level of handout it doesn’t mean that its right or fair. People would certainly work for much less than some of the OTT penalties but the awards ensure this can never happen, so it’s a moot point.

    I certainly don’t begrudge people extra pay for night shifts, being on call etc but in the example I gave if I get a load of mulch today the rooster gets $100 / hr to load me, and if I go tomorrow he gets $40 for the same thing. No thought as to national productivity in that. The small business guy is the loser here, but because they don’t have a voice nothing will change in their favour.

    Anyway thanks for the different viewpoints guys. I’m certainly not anti-employee but rather pro small business is all.
     
    Last edited: 3rd Oct, 2016
  16. Coastal

    Coastal Well-Known Member

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    I found in th US most shops are open until 9 pm at night and over time is paid when a worker works over 40 hours.

    Would be nice if shops in au are open to 9pm everyday.
     
  17. Gockie

    Gockie I'm an ISTP-A female, so I might be a bit quirky! Premium Member

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    But what I saw was Adelaide shops are closed till 11am on Sundays and big supermarkets close at 5pm on weekends. Just get this aligned with some other places first.
     
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  18. DaveM

    DaveM Adelaide Buyers Agent & KFC Strategist Business Member

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    Thats legislated to give workers time off on weekends... something that many here are campaigning to change
     
  19. D.T.

    D.T. Adelaide Property Manager Business Member

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    Yea it sucks, and WA was even worse
     
  20. geoffw

    geoffw Moderator Staff Member

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    When I had the food business, the killer for me was the cashflow, especially when more than one holiday occurred over a short period. Holidays were much quieter but wages were higher, and I couldn't surcharge.

    For the weekends I had a surplus of school and university people happy to work when not studying. But holidays were much harder to fill. I negotiated a wage where the rate was higher for everybody for normal hours, no weekend penalty but a small holiday penalty. For a year the overall wage bill was the same but I could manage it more easily. This was done with the approval of the appropriate government authority, and it was a fair wage, above the award.

    Btw labour is about 33% in the industry so double time and a half adds 50% to the normal overhead.