Private Open Space for Secondary Dwelling / Attached Granny Flat

Discussion in 'Development' started by Trimadmen, 25th Jan, 2020.

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  1. Trimadmen

    Trimadmen Member

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    Location:
    Berowra
    So planning to put in a fully self-contained Granny Flat that is built within the main building as part of my proposed knock down rebuild.

    The proposed position is the front left corner of the house with access to the granny from the LHS where there is a 1.5m gap to the fence, adjacent to the entrance is the front yard.

    Can the private open space for the granny flat be the front yard if it has a high front hedge and trellis on the fence?
    I spoke to a duty officer at the local chamber today who said it wouldn't be ideal...

    I have found the below information

    1 Granny Flat is permissible per lot. Maximum floor area permissible for a Granny Flat is 60 m² Must have a 24m² courtyard space for the Granny Flat, with an area of at least 4m wide.

    My concern is my block has 3m of cross fall, there is going to be a split in the slab behind the back line of the granny. Dealing with steps or ramps when there is a wheelchair or walking frame involved so sticking her out the back seems crazy.

    I found information on a dwelling house on the HSC DCP and some other info on https://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/EPIs/2017-269.pdf

    Is a Granny Flat in itself a Dwelling house, when it is built within the the boundaries of the primary residence?

    fence? POS.JPG gf.JPG legislationnswgovauEPIs2017_269.JPG
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Archaon

    Archaon Well-Known Member

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    You will want to try to get it approved under CDC.

    You will need to reference the AHSEPP 2009

    "Part 2 Site requirements
    2 Lot requirements
    (1) Development for the purposes of a secondary dwelling or ancillary development may only be carried out on a lot that—
    (a) at the completion of the development will have only one principal dwelling and one secondary dwelling, and
    (b) if it is not a battle-axe lot, has a boundary with a primary road, measured at the building line, of at least the following—
    (i) 12 metres, if the lot has an area of at least 450 square metres but not more than 900 square metres,
    (ii) 15 metres, if the lot has an area of more than 900 square metres but not more than 1500 square metres,
    (iii) 18 metres, if the lot has an area of more than 1500 square metres, and
    (c) if it is a battle-axe lot, has an access laneway of at least 3 metres in width and measuring at least 12 metres by 12 metres, excluding the access laneway.
    (2) A lot on which a new secondary dwelling is erected must have lawful access to a public road."

    And;

    "17 Principal private open space
    (1) A lot on which development for the purposes of a secondary dwelling is carried out must have more than 24 square metres of principal private open space.(1A) The principal private open space may be shared by both the principal dwelling and secondary dwelling and may be in the form of a balcony or deck.(2) In this clause, principal private open space means an area that—
    (a) is directly accessible from, and adjacent to, a habitable room, other than a bedroom, and
    (b) is more than 4 metres wide, and
    (c) is not steeper than 1:50 gradient.
    Note.
    There is no requirement that additional parking spaces be provided in respect of development for the purposes of a secondary dwelling."
     
  3. Anthony416

    Anthony416 Well-Known Member

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    As Archaon says, try CDC first however I guess that due to some aspects of the construction for the principal dwelling you need to go through council?
     
  4. Trimadmen

    Trimadmen Member

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    Due to the neighbouring setbacks my Builder says it will have to go under a DA.

    What confuses me is the wording on the first snip from Hornsby council DCP - (3.1.4 Open Space) on my original post that states

    3.1.4 Open Space

    b. The Principal Private open space area should be sited behind the front building line and is to be directly accessible from the living area of the dwelling.

    But is this the case for the secondary dwelling also?

    Nowhere on the https://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/ website can I see that it has to be behind the building line.

    Below are some images of the neighbouring setbacks and my proposed 7x7m Private Open Space well over the min of 24m (Blue bucket will be the front of the house. Hedging to stay and trellis added to existing fence to increase privacy.


    Private Open Space.jpg neighbouring_setbacks.jpg
     
  5. Archaon

    Archaon Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, building a granny flat in your front yard in front of the building line is definitely not standard.

    What's your motivation behind building a granny flat, cash flow? Do you plan to keep the property for a long time?
     
  6. Trimadmen

    Trimadmen Member

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    The proposed granny flat is attached and will be apart of the maining building, not in front of the main building. It's the private open space that will sit in front of the building line.

    Motivation is let it to my mother while she lets out her 5 bedder on the northern beaches.

    When she doesnt need it anymore we let it out, then come the time when the kids move out my wife and I Can downsize and use it ourselves and let the rest of the house primary residence for big bucks securing our future

    The idea is to turn a bad debt into a good debt by creating positive cashflow out of our PPOR.

    I dont want it in the back section of the house to keep the privacy in the backyard to the primary residence. Plus I have 3m of cross fall on our block, if we are dealing with wheel chairs and walkers to and from vehicles etc. it makes sence to me to have it in the front section of the house.
     
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  7. Archaon

    Archaon Well-Known Member

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    I missed the knockdown rebuild, my bad.
     
  8. Ricky Ng

    Ricky Ng Active Member

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    Be careful the PPOS will also need to meet with slope grade requirements. You mention you have a bit of fall on your land, so despite meeting the 24sqm @ min. 4m you might also want to get your designer to check the slope as it can be a deal-breaker.
     
  9. Dsan123

    Dsan123 Member

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    Would you have any updates to your plan. I have a similar situation similar to yours and thinking about adding a GF at the front of the primary dwelling for my MIL. Would love to hear if your plan was successful.
     
  10. Trimadmen

    Trimadmen Member

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    Pre-Covid19 I got referred to a friend of a friend who was building certifier who said he's take a look at it. After 6 weeks he got back to me with, seek the assistance of a local town planner or an architect.

    I started to look for a local town planner to ask their advice, but unfortunately I have lost all momentum with this due to the economic downturn as a result of Covid19.

    Even with the 25k Stimulus package the Government is dangling in-front of the donkeys nose, my tail is still tucked firmly between my legs and I cannot get my head around it at the moment.
     
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  11. Dsan123

    Dsan123 Member

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    Yea the COVID situation definitely is causing a big distraction. So I guess it might really be down to council approvals...

    The $25k grant is great but the deadline is at the end of the year, so it really depends whether you can finalises the contract by then.
     
  12. Klinec

    Klinec New Member

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    Any updates Trimadmen or Dsan123?
    I have the same plans. I would like to build a house + attached granny. Keep the backyard for the house and use front setback as Private Open Space area.
     
  13. Archaon

    Archaon Well-Known Member

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    Have a read of the DCP and LEP for your council area.

    It can be done, but will depend on alot of factors, sun position, area of POS, the fencing will most likely have to be see through above say 1200mm (this is just a guesstimate) etc

    Have you spoke with any town planners?
     
  14. Klinec

    Klinec New Member

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    I have read Warringah DCP 2011 and it says:
    5. Private open space shall not be located in the primary front building setback.

    What is Town Planner? Is it someone employed by council or is it independent profession? How much they charge for consultation?

    I can find on council website information about pre-lodgement meetings but they cost $1080 ☹️
     
  15. Archaon

    Archaon Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like it might be a no then.

    A town planner is independent from council and would hope they know the planning scheme better than council, not always the case though (as I've found out).
    Can be pricey, but you are paying for their expertise, and it depends what needs to be done.