Pre-nup

Discussion in 'Financial Planning' started by KinG3o0o, 18th Dec, 2019.

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  1. thatbum

    thatbum Well-Known Member

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    Could be anything. Nowhere near enough information.
     
  2. Terry_w

    Terry_w Lawyer, Tax Adviser and Mortgage broker in Sydney Business Member

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    see s79.
    There is a 4 step process.
    identify the property pool
    work out who contributed what
    assess needs
    make the outcome just and equitable.
     
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  3. Westminster

    Westminster Tigress at Tiger Developments Business Member

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    It's not quite as clear cut and dried but might be - it depends on a lot of things.
    Consider
    - person B is a carpenter and project managers and does work for free on any of the properties therefore increasing their value
    - person B is a property manager and offers to manage the properties privately saving person A, parents and trust money increasing their income
    - person A and B decide to air BnB all the properties and person B gives up their day job to handle all the changeovers
    - person A and person B join their incomes and all the land tax, bills comes out of a joint account and it becomes unclear who has paid $30k a year in property expenses
    - person B becomes a beneficiary of the discretionary trust and rental income is distributed on paper to them but never actually receives the money as it was simply done to reduce tax paid.

    PS I have no idea if any of these scenarios would actually make it so that they are entitled to partial growth entitlement but these are all ways that someone who has no ownership could think they have a claim or actually have a claim.
     
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  4. Curious2019

    Curious2019 Well-Known Member

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    Interesting topic - seems there are some men who are scared they might end up with a gold digger partner who will leave them and take half their assets without having earnt it!!

    I have a few (hopefully new) discussion points for interested parties to consider (these are not legal points just topics for discussion);
    1. When choosing a life partner, defacto or married, why are couples not having discussions around their personal values to make sure they are aligned before they enter into serious relationships? This is not a dig, but a genuine question about how we communicate with new or potential partners. As a society we seem quick to make life decisions with people i.e move in together BEFORE we really know much about each other’s value systems.
    2. Why are the tasks of a partner that is not the main earner/breadwinner not (or hardly) recognised. For example, many partners (female and male) leave their jobs to support their partner who may have their own business or high paying job. The tasks they may perform at home may seem mundane, but the main earner would not be able to perform their job and earn their income without the support at home, I.e clothes need to be washed, food needs to be purchased and cooked, being a sounding board/Counsellor at the end of a rough day, cleaning needs to be done and this doesn’t even include any parenting, raising of kids or sex! These tasks are highly undervalued. Imagine if you had to pay someone 80hrs a week to run your household and look after kids - what would this cost?? - suddenly a stay at home partner seems like a damn good bargain!
    3. There is a lot of fear associated with the possibility of losing half your wealth in a relationship breakdown.. how much does this fear contribute to people never truely being able to connect with another person? Which is the worse fate? Having wealth but no one to enjoy it with or being happy with someone and knowing that money is only one part of a true wealth equation...

    Just curious...
     
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  5. QldKoolies

    QldKoolies Well-Known Member

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    $400 food eating out
    $20 wash and iron 5 shirts
    $80 cleaner of decent size home
    Mentor + mates for sounding board - Free
    $200 Sex - pro or a few drinks/entertainment for one night stand

    $36k per year, consistent, simple, few arguments, predictable.

    Devils advocate
     
  6. geoffw

    geoffw Moderator Staff Member

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    I didn't realise that even devils advocates had such an outdated view of roles within a marriage.
     
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  7. QldKoolies

    QldKoolies Well-Known Member

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    Was just responding to the points made about a bargain by stating that a person doesn’t need someone at home to run their life so they can make money. Of course that absolutely isn't the arrangement nor the purpose for my marriage.
     
  8. Westminster

    Westminster Tigress at Tiger Developments Business Member

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    No one said that had to be a female doing those things - just a partner.
    I could replace my DH for $36k per year it seems :p
    Or $18k if I'm happy to do half those things
     
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  9. larrylarry

    larrylarry Well-Known Member

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    Yes look at the legislation for guidance.
    Litigation is expensive and a hearing can be at least 3 years away according to Judge Monahan.
     
  10. Curious2019

    Curious2019 Well-Known Member

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    haha I like the humour in your response but I think you have seriously under costed here! If you can run my house for only $36k, when can you start??

    But I’d like to play along with your figures, but let’s try to compare apples with apples -
    -A domestic clean once per week is not the same as a stay at home partner who probably cleans upto 2hrs per day, makes beds, cleans after meal prep, clothes washing, vacuuming etc. assume $30 per hour (that’s what I pay my cleaner) $60 per day x 7 days =$420 per week
    -Eating out - not sure if you’ve included all meals as it seems low- if not don’t forget the time cost of planning and going grocery shopping, assume 2hrs per week @ $30 per hour =$60 per week.
    -Time spent cooking meals (exclude lunches and breakfast) 5 dinners per week x min. 1 hour each = 5 x $30 per hour (not sure what a chef would charge)= $150 per week. + 2 nights out per week, $100
    -5 shirts only? What about your dirty socks & jocks? I’d charge extra for those haha but I’ve included laundry in with cleaning. Don’t forget time for folding and putting clothes away.. say 2hrs a week @$30 per hour =$60 per week
    -mates for free sounding board, sure that’s plausible though they might get sick of you whinging every week about Janet at the office being a meanie..
    -sex - well $200 for a pro sounds low but Melbourne is expensive.. tinder date drinks etc maybe. But that’s only one night per week.. what if you want to have sex more than once per week? Could get expensive.. let’s assume apple for apples, maybe 3 times a week, using your figures, $200 x 3 =$600 a week

    I’m at $72,800 per annum already and I’ve barely scratched the surface! Add kids into the equation and you can almost add $20k per kid just in childcare costs not incurred, not to mention all the other tasks a stay at home partner would perform for children..
     
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  11. Curious2019

    Curious2019 Well-Known Member

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    You are correct, it is not absolutely necessary to have someone at home to run the other partners life so they can make money, but I was talking about it in the context that people were concerned about losing assets in relationship splits where the other partner was perceived to have not earnt it.. my point was that in a lot of cases they probably have earnt half of the asset pool even if they weren’t earning a salary in a traditional PAYG role.
     
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  12. KinG3o0o

    KinG3o0o Well-Known Member

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    1. tbh, i've seen many houses with house wife, most of them either still get cleaners & the homes are not that clean,

    2. you can shop online, supermarket delivers straight to your doorstep,

    3. many housewifes dont cook or cant cook, and slapping can tuna on sandwich is not cooking nor can sauce spagetti bolognese, that is just instant noodle ala italiano

    4. this you are right, but most place do wash and fold, by weight ! cheaper in bulk !

    5. this swing both ways, partners and mates could be great, could give you a stroke

    6. you can pay for sex, or you can just get a few friends with benefit, that should get you covered, not hard not days tbh,

    7. $36000 a year on household is abit low by modern standards, but imho, doing house work is not that hard, honestly my wife dont do much apart from cooking and laundry, ironing is done outside we have cleaners. when we go home we have domestic stay in maids, then she does even less.

    but what i want to raised what is most important is RAISING your children,

    the partners sacrificing their career for this is worth some form of compensation if the relationship go pear shape, $120 a day if you want to put a value on it ?

    anyone can do house work, raising a child the right way with right values,

    now this is worth more than gold at 8 year high prices!