Poverty is a State of Mind - Do you Agree?

I have relatives who fit the description below.
Watched interview with Carson, interesting topic, interesting guy.

NPR, 25 May
Extract below

Housing Secretary Ben Carson Says Poverty Is A 'State Of Mind'

Carson — who himself grew up in poverty to become a widely acclaimed neurosurgeon — said people with the "right mind set" can have everything taken away from them, and they'll pull themselves up. He believes the converse is true as well. "You take somebody with the wrong mind-set, you can give them everything in the world (and) they'll work their way right back down to the bottom," Carson said.

 

I have a relo like that. Married 40+ years ago at 17-18 and went to live OS. Parents kept sending money over to buy them a house/farmlet. Neither worked. He died, she remarried. Got more money from parents, blew it on ???. Rinse and repeat with next husband - cars for b/f, b/f kids etc.

Got a visa with hopes to come and be live-in carer for her parents (ie to become a dependant again), told to take the high road.

Where as the parents had built up a few assets (blocks of units, double block in Annandale (sold a few years ago)).

 

I don't agree that poverty itself is a state of mind.

Poverty to me is being unable to afford basic needs like shelter, food, clothing and medicine. It's reality to those who experience it.

If you live in a 1st-world country, then you have choices as to whether you keep experiencing poverty or doing something to make your life better. These choices aren't necessarily easy ones either.

 

Ben Carson is a twat

Poverty is not a state of mind, he says lots of stupid things but this is right up there. If you have no food, money or a roof over your head the right mindset of course will make a big difference to whether or not you get out of it but until.you do, the realities of poverty don't magically disappear, they're real and legitimate.

Let's say there was a magic wand that could be waved or a pill to give people the right 'mindset" to best improve their chance of escaping poverty, is that person now with the right mindset going to immediately be able to escape it? No they won't and in the meantime their situation of living below poverty line still exists

 

Holy crap we agreed on some thing

 

Haha! you sound surprised.
I'm sure we probably agree on a lot of things.. and disagree on some others, just like everyone else.

 

It depends on what country the person is in. In Australia we have many opportunities to escape poverty. I have been without money, without a job and without accommodation before. It was quite confronting for me as I had a degree (IT) and was actively seeking work but it was after the tech crash and there were no IT jobs. I feel very lucky that the government gave me a loan to retrain and that I found somewhere to live (shared house) while I was at uni. I got a job before I graduated and was able to save half a deposit to by a cheap until in Mandurah.

In other countries these opportunities simply don't exist. Someone in a poorer country can have all the mindset they want but without opportunities, what are they to do with it?

 

Exactly. I'll give a personal example of my father when he was growing up. They undoubtedly were in poverty with 10 mouths to feed off the income of a stall selling cheap shoes and t shirts in an outdoor market in Singapore in the 50s and 60s, eg think Bali cheap stalls. Oh yeah add the whole being refugees from the genocide that occurred during partition who arrived in Singapore after spending some time first homeless then in a refugee camp. To even suggest anyone in such a situation is in poverty due to their mindset shows what a horrible human being he is, proper scumbag

Now turns out a lot of them did have the right mindset with at least 4 of the 8 kids now being millionaires but anyone claiming that poverty was in their mind when they were kids and only had 1 piece of bread per person for dinner to go with ehatever was cheapest option due to only being able to afford the treat of eggs once a week and meat only once a month and not having electricity at home for a number of years is an out of touch buffoon

The fact that this buffoon is in charge of housing speaks measures to the parties approach, likewise with the Head of FCC coming from years spent as a lawyer for the firms it's meant to regulate and the EPA head being a climate change denier who is so incompetent that even Fox news hammered his claims and stance re the environment and climate change

 

I think it's incredibly insensitive and offensive

 

A great man.

I saw this interview (among many others he has given); and he is 150% correct on this issue.

Irrespective of anyone's upbringing; if they are of able mind and (not even) able body; if they have the right attitude; they will usually succeed...war-torn and third world Countries are a different conundrum, of course.

You need to watch the interview; he was referring to folks within the USA - primarily the black community.

To call him a scumbag and a twat is totally inaccurate, uneccessary and obtuse.

 

My kids think we're poor because they don't have a mobile phone. So yes, for some it is a mindset.

There are also some people actually in poverty who don't have a poverty mindset - and they grow to become millionaires, like Sanj's family.

 

This is what Ben Carson was referring to.

I am also one of those people; from a poor family (not as poor as Sanj's, to be sure), and have done reasonably well with no help either financially or financial education-wise from family.

We need more folks like Ben Carson to go around to schools to talk to the kids and give them the life tips on mindset and what attitude to have.

 

Poverty is a State of Mind - Do you Agree?

Agree with above poster - depends where in the world you are. Personally I believe in Australia most (not all) people have no excuse. The opportunities here are endless to do well. We are very, very blessed to be in this nation.

 

There is some truth to it but on the other hand it's just ridiculous. Example of the poverty mindset is evident with the types of people who win the lotto and then end up broke again. Actually just last week I remember reading a story about a 'homeless' man in WA win 200k on scratchies and the first thing he did was buy a boat and a brand new car for his mum...IDIOT!!! On the other hand you've got people in 3rd world and developing countries who are stuck in grinding poverty and lack basic services and infrastructure e.g. Sierra Leone. Poverty is real for these people.

In the US context I disagree with Carson's comments. Wealth inequality is currently at its highest levels since the Great Depression. This shouldn't be surprising as social mobility is declining as education has become a commodity (six figure student loans to get a degree), low minimum wage, poor social security, poor public healthcare, and policies, which pretty much tend to exacerbate all of these outcomes.

Take the latest policy announcement to cut food stamps for example:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/26/opinion/trump-budget-food-stamps-wages.html?_r=0

The logic for cutting food stamps is apparently to save money on the budget and give people an 'incentive' to work. However, according to the Government's own statistics on SNAP 55% of the people receiving food stamps already have a family member working. The problem is that they don't make enough money to feed their families. So here you have a cost-efficient method of helping the most needy scrapped in order to increase military spending and fund tax cuts. That's just one example out of dozens from the USA. Poverty is the mother of crime.

 

Could not agree more

 

Food stamps are really just a subsidy for the big corporations like McDonalds, Wal Mart, etc, so they can maximise their profits by not paying their staff a living wage.

 

Sorry to go off-topic, but this needs to be addressed.

This is the tack taken by the Dems to scaremonger.

"In a statement cited by Bloomberg, New York Senator Senator Chuck Schumer clumsily compared Trump’s campaign rhetoric to a “Trojan Horse.”

“This budget continues to reveal President Trump’s true colors: His populist campaign rhetoric was just a Trojan horse to execute long-held, hard-right policies that benefit the ultra-wealthy at the expense of the middle class,” Bloomberg noted."

Honestly; the guy is an idiot...no wonder they have lost thousands of seats.

They are not about to rip off poor folks to fund more rockets.

The cuts are in areas identified as wasteful...of which there are many...Dems are world champs of hand-outs and social programs that ramp up wasteful spending, and then everyone expects it as a right...(Australia would be a close second).

Trump's Budget Will Slash $1.7 Trillion In Entitlements, Cut Food Stamps By 25% | Zero Hedge

"Trump has promised to balance the federal government’s budget in 10 years, though, as Democrats have noted, the projection is dependent on economic growth accelerating to 3% following the passage of massive tax cuts, and no recession over the next decade, a rather bold assumption. Meanwhile, growth collapsed to an annualized rate of just 0.7% in the fist quarter, the slowest rate in three years, while loan demand has plunged to the lowest level in 6 years. Meanwhile, the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget claims that rather than reining it in our national debt, Trump's tax cuts would make the debt much worse."

Of course a tax cut with no growth will make the debt worse; but that is assuming no future economic growth.

And of course; the Dems - had they won - were about to continue Obamacare (dying a death), about to increase taxes, increase immigration by 600% (and employ them... how?) - the increased welfare bill would have swallowed up any extra revenue from taxes - and the Dems would have spent it anyway not decreased it.

So; they cannot utter anything about a possible lift in debt.

 

can we not turn every single thread into a trump debate pls?

its simple, the meaning of the word poverty is not a term worthy of opinions or uninformed debate, as much as your alternative facts wish to make it so. the poverty line in varuious places is debatable sure but not the meaning of the word.

if you take the most entrepreneurial person from elsewhere, strip him or her of all their possessions and throw them in the slums of say mumbai, are you saying they are not experiencing poverty? it is all in their head? will they use that imagination to pay for food and lodging tomorrow?

someones midnset it highly relevant to if they can or cannot escape poverty, i have never doubted that but to claim it determines the very existence of poverty is an outstanding combo of ignorance and a complete lack of empathy


sorry ill make it simpler for some of the simpler among us to understand

state of poverty - irrelevant to mindset, a fact is a fact, regardless of causation
reasons for being in poverty - can be related to mindset in certain situations, eg for many in australia

 

you need to step back from your attitude and re-read my post.

I specifically said that Ben Carson was talking about the USA - and more specifically the black folks - of which he is one.

Did you see the interview? I suspect not; yet you regularly cast aspersions in a derogatory manner that others do not do any research on the subject matter.

He is a neurosurgeon and not that dumb to assume the abject poverty of war zone and third world victims are the same.

 

another poster bought up the Trump stuff on this thread;

Why don't you castigate the person who did?

I merely replied to it.