Join Australia's most dynamic and respected property investment community

PM refusing to handover to new agent...can I 'co-manage' in the meantime??

Discussion in 'Property Management' started by Pipsal, 21st Dec, 2015.

  1. Pipsal

    Pipsal Member

    Joined:
    21st Dec, 2015
    Posts:
    15
    Location:
    Brisbane
    PM has been terrible, so I have issued notice to terminate agreement, 30 days. I offered to pay out the full 30 days commission, even though the property only has a tenant for less than a week of that 30 days as the Lease is up and no new tenant has been secured (or any attempt made to even advertise until the day I gave notice!). PM is refusing to hand over, would rather take 1 week commission and do all work associated with Exits, re-listing, etc....?? And threatening me with advertising costs now, etc (agreement says NIL, so don't think they can).

    What I need to know is, can I co-manage this property for the remainder of the 30 day period? I know my new agent can't, but can they stop me from being involved? The contract states:
    4.1 The lessor must "not let or manage the property as principal, or appoint any person to let or manage the property other than the agent for the term of this agreement."

    I ask because I have been told I am no longer able to attend the Exit Inspection this week. Am I within my rights to attend this? Or can I do it myself instead?? I am concerned about it - when I first asked to go (prior to terminating) I was told it would be 6am Christmas Day, but this was changed when I said that was fine.

    Also, can I collect the keys (PM doesn't have any at present as they gave their set to tenant as well!)? I am considering changing the locks and not giving keys if they get them as, while it may seem over the top, I have heard stories re. the PM in the past that I did not pay much attention to but with issues lately I now have very real concerns about what may be done while it is vacant. Is there something that would prevent me from doing this? I have a standard REIQ contract/conditions agreement.

    If I request copies of all Applications so that I can approve or not, do they have to send them to me? I don't want a bad tenant put in out of spite!

    And can I advertise the property for rent? As long as I pass on all applications (commission), etc?

    Anyone with any experience with this?
     
  2. JacM

    JacM VIC Buyer's Agent Business Member

    Joined:
    12th Jul, 2015
    Posts:
    1,120
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Hi Pipsal

    Sorry to hear you have had this experience. Unfortunately the behaviour is common and unprofessional.

    You can contact the Office of Fair Trading. They generally put the wind up the agency and you get a rapid response. This should get you out of there nice and quick.
     
    Last edited: 22nd Dec, 2015
  3. Chilliblue

    Chilliblue Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    1,579
    Location:
    Australia
    If you have appointed another PM they could assist you with this. In NSW:

    If an agent is acting on behalf of a principal in the management of property and is advised by another agent that the other agent (the new agent) has been engaged to act on behalf of that principal in the management of that property, the agent must co-operate with the new agent in regards to access to the records of the principal, including but not limited to making the records reasonably available (according to law), and facilitating the transfer of management functions between the agent and the new agent.

    You also have several questions:

    1. Can old terminated agent relet property against your wishes - NO and you need to advise the agency that the property is not be relet

    2. Can you attend the outgoing inspection - YES but the agency has to inform when that is

    3. Can you collect keys - YES but again the agency has to be willing. Change locks instead at the end of notice.

    4. Can I let premise myself - Yes but the terminated agency must agree and may request fees in accordance to your agreement

    You need to ensure that you have complied with your agreement and have documented all actions and requests in writing. As you are in QLD contact your Fair Trading Office via

    Contacting Fair Trading | Your rights, crime and the law | Queensland Government

    Best of luck
     
    Last edited: 21st Dec, 2015
  4. Pipsal

    Pipsal Member

    Joined:
    21st Dec, 2015
    Posts:
    15
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Thanks for the reply....Fair Trading person has just told me there's nothing I can do. I can only attend Exit, collect keys, advertise etc if they let me because I've appointed them. Can't do anything until the 30 days is up apparently
     
  5. Chilliblue

    Chilliblue Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    1,579
    Location:
    Australia
    The reletting of the premises without your approval seems really unusual.
     
  6. Pipsal

    Pipsal Member

    Joined:
    21st Dec, 2015
    Posts:
    15
    Location:
    Brisbane
    I didn't get into that one specifically....but they are managing it, so they can manage it however they choose apparently? I have requested all applications so that I can approve, but I don't think that will be a problem anyway, I think they're just trying to keep it vacant.
    I think the only thing I might have is the REA Code of Conduct "Agent to act in accordance with client's instructions"....might be able to use for the Exit inspection, and hopefully lease renewals?
     
  7. Xenia

    Xenia Adelaide Property Manager Business Member

    Joined:
    21st Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    2,347
    Location:
    4/136 The Parade Norwood, South Australia
    Not nice
    Paying out the 30 day period is by mutual consent.

    I'm reading very strong messages that they want you to stay away for whatever reason.

    If new manager has given appropriate notice, all you can do is wait.
     
  8. Propagate

    Propagate Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    283
    Location:
    Melbourne
    @Pipsal We just changed agents in NSW. From what I was told, (and it worked), as there was no new lease, the old lease had expired and they hadn't yet found a new tenant then the 30 days notice didn't apply - we terminated them immediately and the new agent took over straight away.
     
  9. dabbler

    dabbler Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    2,721
    Location:
    Sid en e - olympic city
    I would not wear this & you can def advise place is not to be re let at this time, give any reason, it's your house ! Don't approve any applicants if they offer any up !

    I put 14 days on some of my contracts, come to think of it, I think 24-48 hrs is enough.

    Will start a new thread on this to get others input.
     
  10. Tim & Chrissy

    Tim & Chrissy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    5th Dec, 2015
    Posts:
    813
    Location:
    NSW
    In my opinion the only mature and responsible way to handle the situation is to go down to the agency and get involved in some good old fashioned fisticuffs with the PM. @Xenia will back me up on that one ;)
     
    Xenia likes this.
  11. Xenia

    Xenia Adelaide Property Manager Business Member

    Joined:
    21st Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    2,347
    Location:
    4/136 The Parade Norwood, South Australia
    Right on TC :cool:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 4th Nov, 2016
  12. Pipsal

    Pipsal Member

    Joined:
    21st Dec, 2015
    Posts:
    15
    Location:
    Brisbane
    PM is not responding to email correspondence/requests now, if I go there in person I'm concerned there'll be some made up accusation and police called - I've known of them doing it before. Last correspondence informed me that I was not able to enter the property without tenant permission until lease officially ended, even though the tenant was vacating early of their own accord - does not want me entering the property for some reason! And I don't think I can change locks without giving keys as per my contract, I need to put in a cheap security camera or something to keep an eye on when/if the agent enters the property while it's vacant in case something happens, but where to get one that won't cost me the earth?!!
     
  13. herenow

    herenow Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    16th Aug, 2015
    Posts:
    55
    Location:
    SA
    Are you calling the agent or just emailing? Phone calls are harder to ignore (and you can block your number if you think they're screening your calls, though they might not answer those either). I'd actually seriously consider checking out the property once I knew the tenant was gone regardless if it was still under lease. Maybe issues with that from a legal pov, but something seems very strange about what's going on.
     
  14. Perthguy

    Perthguy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    23rd Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    4,782
    Location:
    Perth
    Yipes @Pipsal, what a mess! Something to consider is checking to see if you can get insurance while the place is empty. Also tell the PM that you will be attending the exit inspection and if they don't allow you access to your property, you will call the police. It is a ridiculous situation that someone you are paying is treating you like this.
     
  15. Pipsal

    Pipsal Member

    Joined:
    21st Dec, 2015
    Posts:
    15
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Everything has been in writing except one phone call. I told them I was attending, but they won't tell me when it is. Phone call was last attempt at finding out when exit was - "I can't give you that information". Asked to be informed when tenant has vacated, was told I can't go in until Lease end and they had management for the 30 days, someone would get back to me when they can re. vacate, but they are going on holidays for a few days. Tenant had already vacated at time of phone call.

    RTA said agreement with tenant ends upon vacate, regardless of their financial obligations if they go early. Fair Trading have said to lodge complaint, but takes 10 working days to even look at, so won't help me really and not sure how it will affect them long term although I'd like it to.

    I have own keys, and have spoken to tenant and been advised that full vacate has occurred. Also got permission from tenant to enter anytime now, just in case. I have spoken to the police and they seem to think it is fine for me to go in, and said to call if there is a problem when I'm there....I'd really rather it not come to that though! And unfortunately, I don't think its strange behaviour from them once you get off side in their eyes...I should have believed what I'd been told about their behaviour with others and never appointed them....
     
  16. Ed Barton

    Ed Barton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    19th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    1,126
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Harden up. Change the locks, give the management to the new agency and let the old agency sue you for a few bucks - which they won't do. Taking a crap on their doorstep is optional, but highly encouraged.
     
  17. tomlemke

    tomlemke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    21st Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    360
    Location:
    Newcastle
    Terrible situation, i just changed agency's in logan they handed everything over within 7 days.
    Hopefully your current p.m isn't hiding any surprises.
     
  18. wylie

    wylie Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    2,964
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Call the RTA and ask what rights you have to issue entry notice, see what they say about the situation.
     
  19. Perthguy

    Perthguy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    23rd Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    4,782
    Location:
    Perth
    It's a ridiculous situation when you feel like you are not permitted to enter your own property. You have to option of telling the previous agents to get stuffed. Enter your house, let them call the police and see what attitude the police have towards the property owner vs an agent that you don't want on the property. My money would be with the owner having right of entry, not the previous property manager. Personally, I think you are giving the previous PM too much power. It's your house! o_O
     
  20. jchan86

    jchan86 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    73
    Location:
    Brisbane and Remote WA
    Would you mind sharing which Agency this is?
    My sister had a similar disappointing experience on the northside of Brisbane where the PM was not doing her job and was just collecting the weekly commission.
     
    Props 2 U likes this.