PM lied about NSW inspection law

Discussion in 'Property Management' started by WattleIdo, 14th Jul, 2018.

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  1. WattleIdo

    WattleIdo midas touch

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    About a month ago my PM and I arranged to inspect my tenanted Sydney unit this week coming. Tenant has been making requests for upgrades of appliances, plugs etc which I've rejected because I consider them unreasonable. But I want to check and I want to see the new air conditioner I've had installed. Tenant was advised well ahead of time etc.
    Unbenownst to me, the agency has included a phrase at the bottom of the advisory letter - something along the lines of:
    Please arrange to be at home on this day or arrange for a trusted person to be present so that we can enter with keys. If you do not agree to us entering with keys, we will not do so.
    Halfway through last week, the tenant tells the PM that the date and time aren't suitable and provides other dates.
    This really puts out me out as I've booked in pet care, travel, accomodation etc. So I queried the PM as to whether this was law or agency policy. I went through to the manager etc and they told me it was law.
    I looked it up online and it still says what I thought:
    Entry without consent, with notice
    The landlord/agent, or another person authorised by the landlord, can enter the premises without your consent for certain purposes. See the table below for the number of times entry is permitted and minimum notice periods.

    Except as noted in the table, notice does not have to be in writing. If notice is posted to you, the landlord/agent must allow an extra 4 working days for delivery.

    Entry without consent – permitted frequencies and notice periods
    Purpose Maximum frequency Minimum notice
    To inspect the premises 4 times in any 12-month period 7 days written notice each time
    To carry out or assess the need for:

    • necessary repairs/maintenance (non-urgent)
    • work to meet legal health/safety obligations
    (none – as required) 2 days notice each time.
    Factsheet 08: Privacy and access

    I've instructed the PM to carry out the inspection for me on one of the 'agreed' dates but I don't even trust them.
    I find dishonesty frustatrating at the best of times but crazy-making when I'm paying for it.
    Tenant has been there 4 years and I've been using this agency for 7 years.
    Should I insist on being allowed through the property on the day that I first arranged over a month ago?
     
  2. ChrisDim

    ChrisDim Well-Known Member

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    Hi - yes you should.... and the sooner you see your property with your own eye the better. Speaking from personal experience, I left my beautiful apartment at Hurstville with a PM 5 years ago and when I visited it again a month ago (assuming my PM was taking care of it all along) - I found it in disarray. Minimum 10K now to paint, fix kitchen, bathroom and walls!
     
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  3. wylie

    wylie Moderator Staff Member

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    I'd guess if the PM hasn't issued an entry notice, you don't have a right to enter.

    That is the fault of the PM for asking that they be home so you can enter with keys and saying if they don't agree, you won't enter.

    Why on earth did they not just give entry notice without tenant consent, especially if you don't live in the same city. How annoying.

    I would ask for the tenant's mobile, and text them myself saying you've paid for flights and accommodation and would they mind that you come through. At least with the personal request, they might agree to this.

    I wouldn't trust it to the PM.
     
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  4. marmot

    marmot Well-Known Member

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    And I wonder how that would all end up ,especially if the owner has refused to do any upgrades.
    Maybe just approach it in more of a businessmen like way and make it appealing to both parties .
     
  5. WattleIdo

    WattleIdo midas touch

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    Flat was renovated when I lived there - new kitchen and bathroom plus painted throughout and floors polished. This tenant has had a new oven, a new cooktop, a large and new air condtioner ... been more than generous. She keeps calling for a plumber because her hair gets caught in the drains. She won't open the window to let out steam when cooking. I don't want her ruining my flat.
    I agree with others that face to face with me is more effective.
     
  6. marmot

    marmot Well-Known Member

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    Effective for who ?
    You or her.
    How much are you out of pocket by not being able to inspect the property ?? .
    A bit of compromise can sometimes sort out some pretty straightforward situations .
    Unfortunately egos can sometimes get in the way and both parties feel aggrieved , it may even be a simple issue that work situations can make it difficult for access to be granted.
     
  7. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Well-Known Member

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    AFAIK, 100%. You can on longer claim travel costs for residential property.
     
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  8. wylie

    wylie Moderator Staff Member

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    Who knows until you try. The PM isn’t helping.
     
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  9. Tom Rivera

    Tom Rivera Property Manager Business Member

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    It's quite possible your PM doesn't even know the exact law in this situation- misinformation is rife in our industry. That being said, I'd almost consider that worse than if they purposely misled you....!

    They really should have explained to the tenant that you were going to a great effort to attend and it would HAVE to be on that date. If she continued to specifically refuse entry, you can issue a Form 11 for refusing entry without good reason.

    It sounds like it's too late now though?
     
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  10. WattleIdo

    WattleIdo midas touch

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    I'm afraid you're probably right. Yeah too late this time. :rolleyes: Will do another inspection myself in a few months.
     
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  11. JacM

    JacM VIC Buyer's Agent - Melbourne, Geelong, Ballarat Business Member

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    Standard practice I expect is that the tenant is issued with a notice advising of when the inspection will be. If they wish to request to change it they can contact the PM. If the PM is able to oblige, they will do so in the interests of tenant harmony. But the PM is not required to oblige.
     
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  12. Jacque

    Jacque Jacque Parker Premium Member

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    Agree with @wylie here- very odd with the wording of the notice, providing the tenants with an out here. The PM would have been far better to have put a more standard line eg" If we do not hear back from you then we will assume we can use the spare key for this routine inspection" As long as sufficient notice is supplied the agent/landlord can enter for the above purposes. Good luck with it all and keep us posted as to how it all transpired.
     
  13. WattleIdo

    WattleIdo midas touch

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    Thanks.
    Yeah I think they've gone too far with this harmony thing. I think it's time for a change.
     
  14. 15408

    15408 New Member

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    As long as the correct notice period has been given the agent can access the property. If a tenant contacts us to rearrange an inspection we try to accommodate, however, if a landlord is travelling from interstate for the inspection I explain that to the tenant and let them know that we will use our set of keys for access.

    Unfortunately their wording has effectively given the tenants an excuse to get out of the inspection.

    I would ask the agent to complete the inspection and take as many photos as possible so that you can have a look. Then request that for the next inspection they remove the line from their letter about only accessing with permission.

    Good luck!
     
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  15. Jane Ridder

    Jane Ridder Well-Known Member

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    I'm not so sure about this approach. Once the tenant starts calling you back about other issues you'll really start wondering why you're paying a property manager.
     
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  16. wylie

    wylie Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm not paying a property manager. I am the property manager.

    I've no issues with our tenants having my number (except a few rare occasions over the past 40 years). Recently our son looked after our places while we were overseas and an issue arose. He was doing a good job trying to minimise the cost to us for fixing this issue. But when the tenants didn't seem to want to do what he suggested, and when it was not clear who needed to fix the issue, I did step back in and they felt listened to.

    Our son (used to be a PM) was not wrong to stand his ground, and I did end up paying for a fix, but I believe had I not bent on this issue, these tenants would have left the house, possibly losing us considerably more in lost rent and costs to find a new tenant. The fix was less than a week's rent.

    So, I know he was probably right, but the personal touch did save a situation that could have escalated further had the tenants decided they would take it further.
     
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  17. Jane Ridder

    Jane Ridder Well-Known Member

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    Sorry @wylie , I was referring to the OP.

    I had a situation a couple of years ago where my PPOR became an investment property when I moved out. Even though the property isn't far from where I live now, I still hired a PM as I didn't want this responsibility (and wanted to maintain my privacy). Anyhow, one day there was a mix up and something was delivered to me there at the old address. The lady next door thought she was doing the right thing and gave the tenants my mobile number so they could arrange for me to collect the package.

    Long story short, they ended up being fairly high maintenance tenants and called me in panic when their requests weren't actioned immediately, even though I advised them to communicate directly with the PM.

    One time they were complaining the family couldn't eat because the oven wasn't working and that the situation was untenable. After my PM arranged for an appliance repair specialist to go and see what was wrong it turned out that the light globe in the oven needed replacing. This cost me around $300, nearly all of it labour and call out. It was at this point when I started wondering why I was paying a percentage of my rent to the PM. In fairness, none of this was the PM's fault, but my point is that it can backfire when the tenant gets hold of your mobile because your privacy is compromised and you could have the stress of dealing directly with neurotic tenants.

    BTW, it's all good now, those tenants have moved on and the current tenants are great :).
     
  18. wylie

    wylie Moderator Staff Member

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    I do understand @Jane Ridder. I've had only a handful of problem tenants over that time, and each time I've thought "wish I had a PM to sort this out". But I've sorted things out myself, mostly with no real loss, other than a few nights' sleep. But mostly our tenants have been great.

    And the ones we've had in two houses for the past eight years have been fantastic. They've allowed us to plan our DA, have surveyors, designers, town planners and all manner of other people enter the property, mostly not having to go inside the houses, but at times, they have opened up the house to allow what was needed inside.

    We always gave them notice, and they never had any issues with this. We were always open with them, keeping them updated with our progress, of when they might need to look for another house. They appreciated this as much as we appreciated their flexibility and willingness to allow us to do what we needed.

    It is a two way street, and we are great landlords too, looking after them, especially at the end when they were moving out.

    I'm sad the relationships have ended, but both couples are keen to see what happens with "their" houses, and I'll keep them updated as things change.

    I cannot imagine how much more difficult this whole process would have been with a third party in the middle. But I appreciate being a hands on landlord is not for everyone.
     
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