LIC & LIT Platinum Capital Limited (PMC)

Discussion in 'Shares & Funds' started by DareDevil, 16th Sep, 2019.

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  1. DareDevil

    DareDevil Well-Known Member

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    PMC is in a nose-dive today, $1.43 now
     
  2. Nodrog

    Nodrog Well-Known Member

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    Could potentially get a lot worse yet if it continues through the support level around 1.43 with strength tomorrow? Unless of course @SatayKing starts buying:).

    Not for the feint hearted.
     
  3. DareDevil

    DareDevil Well-Known Member

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    So true, being buying at different prices from $1.9 to latest around $1.45 couple of weeks ago
     
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  4. Nodrog

    Nodrog Well-Known Member

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    I have my views (likely to be proven wrong no doubt:confused:) of what lies ahead for the next decade or more in some markets more so than others which at our stage of life is very important. So for better or worse I’m investing accordingly.

    Cash offers great optionality but that’s about all in our case. I think we can do better than that by avoiding all or nothing thinking but it means remaining true to my contrarian nature that has served me well in the past. No guarantee it will in the future of course. However whatever the outcome I’m very much at peace with it.
     
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  5. dunno

    dunno Well-Known Member

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    I’m weighing up a direct investment in PTM currently. Out of favour value manager, currently unloved but these businesses have huge leverage to FUM when the cycle turns. Long term fee erosion is the risk side of the argument

    Putting the direct ownership of the ticket clipper aside, A question of those that hold PMC. How similar is it to the unlisted Platinum International Fund (listed PIXX option). From my one observation it seems similar but not just a unit of the fund (like vanguard). Does it stay similar over time or does its allocations vary? From those that are long term holders/watchers what can you tell me?

    ps @Nodrog, I self-edited last post (video) to keep thread on topic after I knew you had seen it. Funny as and couldn't resist after the NZ reference. Moderators weren’t the culprits
     
    Last edited: 16th Sep, 2019
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  6. Nodrog

    Nodrog Well-Known Member

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    Gee maybe one for @SatayKing.

    I’ve never really looked at the active ETF version or unlisted version for that matter but I think SK might have looked into the unlisted fund at one stage?

    I’ve always understood PMC to be somewhat more hedge fund like in it’s approach with “dividends” a more important consideration than the other funds. Currency management also is actively managed but likely applies to other funds also.

    Being a fan of LICs I favour investing in the mgr’s product in that environment. Now for example PMC is at a rare discount to NTA. Not something I think one can DCA into but purchased at opportune times it might make sense to some investors.

    As for allocations the quarterly reports from memory have shown allocations do vary overtime but the Asia (China in particular) and Japan tilt has generally remained strong. Obviously a quick look at a sample of their quarterly reports over a number of years would be more reliable than my memory.

    For example one from 2013 vs latest 2019 report:

    C2928EA7-9F25-4525-B63B-BD6789FF71F8.jpeg
    39D89D23-2725-474A-81DF-293DCA396F49.jpeg

    Again not sure how this compares with the unlisted global fund.

    Probably not much help sorry given my preference for LICs and an income focus. Hence I don’t look at other product offerings outside this space.

    No doubt the following applies to Platinum Funds in general but this from PMC’s annual report just released highlights the mgr’s view (hope). Whether history repeats is yet to be seen but I’m more comfortable with this view at the current stage of the cycle than simply dumping “everything” into a global index fund. As per Aswath’s video you posted call it love of investing / hedging my bets or whatever I need to balance index investing with some contrarian value allocation to feel it’s right for me:
    Hopefully others can be of more assistance.
     
    Last edited: 16th Sep, 2019
  7. SatayKing

    SatayKing Well-Known Member

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    I have not looked at any of the Platinum stable apart from PMC. That has sufficient excitement for me and I am probably looking forward to some more of that later today.
     
  8. Nodrog

    Nodrog Well-Known Member

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    No no no. You need to buy more VGS and ALI. Leave PMC alone, excitement is not wise at your age.
     
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  9. SatayKing

    SatayKing Well-Known Member

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    That was so yesterday.
     
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  10. Peppas

    Peppas Well-Known Member

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    PMC is an international LIC right? I remember some analysis on it a few pages back, might try and find it o_O
     
  11. SatayKing

    SatayKing Well-Known Member

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    Yep international it is with a large focus on Asia. I know I'm considered a wacko but it is one of the aspects I like about LICs of this nature. Others may get angsty, sell and the share price goes down but the LICs still has the funds unlike unlisted models.
     
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  12. BPhil

    BPhil Well-Known Member

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    What is the definition of growth vs value, anyway? I assume they are talking about share price growth as opposed to earnings growth?
     
  13. Nodrog

    Nodrog Well-Known Member

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    PMC is absolute rubbish, don’t know why anyone would even consider investing in it.
     
  14. SatayKing

    SatayKing Well-Known Member

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    The PMC Pump and mainly DUMP campaign begins.
     
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  15. Nodrog

    Nodrog Well-Known Member

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    Growth vs value can be misleading. As per Anton Taligaferro interview the other day who started IML well known value investing Mgr said of course we want growth as that results in increased earnings / dividends overtime. It’s “what you’re prepared to pay for that growth” that is most important and where the “value” aspect comes into it.
     
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  16. SatayKing

    SatayKing Well-Known Member

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    For some this may seem a confusing statement if the perception is growth equates to increases in share prices.
     
  17. Nodrog

    Nodrog Well-Known Member

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    What we need is a fair dictum review of PMC from @dunno. I’ve a fair idea how it’d read. PMC at $1.00 might even seem expensive:D.

    Seriously one needs to understand what he / she is after when investing in PMC. For example, it’s price chart since inception is a horrible picture and not one hopes to see generally as a long term investor. Be sure to DYOR on this one!

    CC5EE7B5-1890-4AA4-9A81-FE746D10F11E.jpeg
     
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  18. DareDevil

    DareDevil Well-Known Member

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    @dunno, Seems the Platinum International Fund invest in the same kind of portfolio as the listed PMC, also cost is same of little-bit more than the listed fund. Just for my curiosity, why would you prefer the PTM over PMC?
     
  19. dunno

    dunno Well-Known Member

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    I did a bit more investigating this morning. Seems PIXX is a unit of Platinum International Fund.(PIF)
    upload_2019-9-17_9-20-22.png

    PMC seems to be run almost exactly as PIF, same portfolio Manager in Andrew Clifford and basically same Portfolio mix, Though PMC is it’s own entity and owns its own assets rather than units in PIF.

    Interestingly PMC started first in 1994 and now has 453m in Funds
    PIF started in 1995 and now has 9,711 in funds
    PIXX started 2017 and has 342m in funds.

    PIF has had the better return performance.

    upload_2019-9-17_9-29-7.png
    upload_2019-9-17_9-31-14.png
     
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  20. dunno

    dunno Well-Known Member

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    PTM is a completely different animal to PMC.

    PMC is a fund of diversified holdings, so non-volatile. PTM is the manager and hence their income is from the fee income not the performance of the fund. However, it is hugely leveraged to the flow of money into the funds. Both up and down.

    Most of PTM’s valuation drivers are in unlisted funds – PMC funds under management is small bickies. PIF is like 20 times the size of PMC now.
     
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