Peter Thornhill

Is anybody going this course by Peter Thornhill? If so, could we please get an update?

Understanding Investing for Long-Term Gain Course

 

Just arrived in Sydney to attend the Peter Thornhill seminar tomorrow.

Wondering if any other PCers are going?

I'll give a report afterwards.

Also wondering what's happened to the brains trust of the other assets thread. Have you all gone on holidays together? (Falcon, Austing & jhmtaylor!!!!!!!!)

Cheers

 

Been thinking the same thing, must be spending all those dividends!

 

Rehab!

 

Just like the markets does sometimes, taking a breather (I hope). Miss them and I hope they are well.

 

Review so far...........

Half a dozen schooners at the Malbourough Hotel, Newtown went down a treat then the Pad Thai and Calamari at Thai Riffic was terrific!!!!
Got a room at a pop up hotel in Wesley College for $88 a night, even the cab driver from the airport couldn't believe the price.
Only 3 minutes walk to the course location in the morning.
I'll let you know how breakfast goes

Cheers

 

This is the best post I've read in this thread so far.

 

I was worried you'd left, but I had notified you'd liked a few posts in the last few weeks, so you are still lurking.
Where are you all holidaying? It's the wrong time of the year to be in Omaha.

 

Under the house in the home brew cellar.

 

@Banawarra, how was it? Looking forward to your update

 

And yes, most displeased you didn't provide us with your breakfast review as promised.

 

C'mon, out with it. Suspense is harmful to geriatrics.

 

I'm coming, you'll have to wait until tomorrow.
It was definatly worth attending, reinforced everything from the book and this thread.
I had the #%^*'s yesterday after a 9 hour delay at Sydney airport.
Cheers
Banawarra

 

Sorry Austing,

Breakfast was good but the corn fritters were a bit dry.
Still 1000 times better than airport food!!!!!

 

Any updates from the seminar just gone or not many PC members attended?

 

Still waiting on @Banawarra to Report. I'm hoping I live long enough to see it.

I've been following Peter's stuff for about 20 years now at a guess and occasionally email / phone him to stay in contact. So although I pretty much know what he's likely to say I still never tire of hearing his message.

There's a lot of distraction out there with all sorts of complex analysis. I follow it with interest from an academic and personal interest point of view (and I've spent an enormous amount of time doing this recently ala LIC Fundamental Analysis through wading through Company reports) but does it change my approch to investing? NO!

One can fart-arse around with analysing company reports, try to get involved in activism (ala Wilson LICs) but to me that's not "real" investing but trading and speculation. No I'll stick with the slower but reliable Thornhill approach of progressively building a good old fashioned LIC portfolio generating dividends that is providing us with a very nice passive income in retirement. Note that the Thornhill "superior strategy" is about long term investing in dividend rich "Industrial" shares or LICs that come close to meeting that criteria. One of my favourite charts as a reminder of the magnificent merits of Industrial shares:




Thornhill of course holds direct shares as well as LICs but admits it's not necessary. His LICs (ARG, MLT, BLT, WHF) are excellent for the "loooonnnggg" term investor. Ignore yesterday's performers and focus on the big picture being the Aussie economic cycle. Take note of the following excellent post from @keithj who follows a similar investing style to my own and retired very young:

What's looking cheap on the ASX? (Keithj)

And another great approach here:

What's looking cheap on the ASX? (Truong)

This is "true" investing being lower risk with the likelihood of a more reliable outcome.

Decide what you want from your investments. You can spend enormous amounts of time looking to outperform the market (the majority will fail) or just keep investing in long term focused LICs like those mentioned above and get on with enjoying your life.

Your choice!

Not advice.

 

Hi All, Sorry for the delay.
As I mentioned earlier it was probably what I expected to hear as I've read his book quite a few times and this thread reinforces his mantra. In saying that I also did learn a lot.

There was a bit of a mix of people there from retirees down to younger people all at different life stages and different incomes. I spoke to a few and there was the odd PCer there. (Hi Maryella!!) One Gentleman I spoke to goes along to the same course every couple of years to reinforce the message and this year took his kids and a mate along.

Definitely a lot of slides with the $100k invested slide (the "mothership" slide as he refers to it in one of his my say emails) getting plenty of display as well as the headlines from the paper showing all the bad news of market crashes over the years but never headlines saying market rises.

A few of the main points that I took out of the day:

The difference between investing and speculating. You have no right to call yourself an investor if you are a day trader, Investment property purchaser (I better be careful, I could be kicked off the forum) or investing in Art, Cars wine etc.

He had a quick equation to work out what your net worth should be for your age: Multiply your age x total pretax income from all sources then divide by 10.

Diversification is great - Across ASX Industrials only, anything else is DiWORSEification.

Income does not equal yield. The higher the initial yield you choose, the worse your income will get. the lower the initial yield, the better the long term income.

"The sharemarket reflects the endeavour of the human race" - If all of the sharemarket collapsed compleatly then society as we know it would cease to exist.

"Property is a dead weight on the balance sheet of a good business" - Stay away from real estate investments.

He was pushing everyone to start investing straight away - The old LICs that we know about - WHF, ARG, MLT & BKI. He was also very much in favour of everyone getting a loan to up their investing, even if it was only a small personal loan for the amount that you knew you would receive in dividends in the next 12 months.

He discouraged people from going down the direct share route. Stay with the old LICS. He stated to me afterwards that even some of the stuff that he picked have done no good and a few of the really good ones he got from those in the know Angus Gluskie, Frank Gooch etc.

He has no time for Geoff Wilson, Kerr Neilson etc. and their exuberant fees. I asked him about Anton Tagliafera and QVE. He was quite blunt about a lot of the ex perpetual employees who are spruiking their management prowess for running the industrial share fund when it could have looked after itself and still produced a stellar return. The old LICs will outlive all of these newbys by a long while.

Keeping it simple reduces your time doing paperwork and such and reduces your need to fiddle and also if you die and your other half has responsibility it makes it easier for them to handle. Grief and stress don't mix well together.

Rent the lifestyle that you would like, let your share investments do the work for you. He also stressed that there is more to life than work and money, spend time with family and friends and if you invest well and let time and compounding do their thing you should be able to do pretty much what you like.

He wasn't a big fan on overseas diversification. His investments in the UK are only a result of him living there but he did say that his 18 years living over there was the best thing he could have done for his education.

As I posted in the bogle head thread he is not a fan of ETF's for a number of reasons but he did soften his stance at one stage to in answer to a question from someone to say that at least you are there investing.

In summary I am certainly glad I attended, even given the 9 hour airport delay the next day, and I think I would like to attend again in another 12 months or so. I have re read this thread a couple of times since attending and as Austing posts I think if you believe and want to follow his approach then take a lot on board but you do not have to follow it blindly and it doesn't matter if you mix and match it, as long as you are there investing.

I hope I haven't waffled on too much.

Cheers

Banawarra

 

Magnificent post thanks @Banawarra.

Peter never disappoints. One needs to remember that he spent a lifetime in the fund's management industry working alongside the likes of Anton Taglioferro (IML, QVE). And employers such as Henderson's (UK) and Perpetual.

If one thinks he doesn't know how to read a company report or at least have access to those who do then they are deluding themselves. Despite this, like Peter I choose to stick to those old low fee LICs that have been around for decades. No key person risk ala a supposed gun stock picker who won't be around forever. Just a focus on mostly industrial dividend paying stocks (via LICs) held for the long term. It' s all about superior strategy, NOT "celebrity" stockpickers!!!

Unlike some our retirement income (other than a tiny Gov't Super pension) is entirely from LIC / Share dividends. Like Peter we are living proof that this strategy works! And what more can you ask for, simple set and forget. Investing is a means to an end, not an end in itself. Keep it simple, enjoy life. Trying to be smart doesn't guarantee better returns. In fact, more often than not the opposite is true!

Not advice.

 

Great posts guys! Very surprised on Peter's view on QVE and similar new lic funds!

I wonder how he structured his portfolio to capture small mid caps?

Or did he fulfill this gap via his allocated individual share portfolio?

Again amazing summary and posts, it really emphasises staying the course and just keep buying the basic old school lic's!

The posts i read on this forum are never too long, keep them coming all beneficial to us novice PC readers!

Cheers

 

Excellent stuff @Banawarra. Thanks heaps mate.

@pippen I am guessing Thornhill's logic is that the big old school LICs are able to capture many of the small cap stocks in their portfolio anyway. You just don't see it reported in the top 20 holdings for the big LICs.

Also, from memory, I think there was a dedicated push from a big LIC (I think AFI - could be wrong) to include more small caps in their portfolio for growth.

Having said that, I hold QVE and will look at adding to it further as and when opportunities present itself. It has had a bull run of late. I like many things about Anton T including his years of experience, his own alignment (his personal investment) with QVE and IML and his dislike towards resource stocks and affinity towards industrials.

Not advice.