WA Perth - Dummies Guide

Discussion in 'Where to Buy' started by See Change, 22nd Dec, 2021.

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  1. See Change

    See Change Well-Known Member

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    Looking at Perth at the moment . One recurring theme is " I'm from the East Coast and know nothing about Perth " . I'm guility of that .

    So rather than another thread on where to buy in Perth , could some of the people who know something about Perth , give insights to us who know sfa on what things are important in perth about where you buy , railways , school zones , proximity of the coast , River , North South divide and what suburbs are comparable to suburbs in Sydney / Melbourne .

    From my reading so far
    Rockingham seems to be the Franstone , on the water / nice beaches , cheap , dubious areas .
    Peppermint / Cottesloe / Mosman Park = Double Pay / Toorak / Brighton .

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    Cheers

    Cliff
     
  2. gach2

    gach2 Well-Known Member

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    Whats your goals with the property?

    Coming from Sydney I could possibly give comparable

    but anti social behaviour is a lot more visible in Perth comparative to Sydney/Melbourne/SEQ

    Example begging/homelessness is a more visible even in the suburbs of Perth (including more affluent suburbs) than where in east coast is usually seen around city centres etc

    Note I said visibility - doesn't mean factually

    Meth is really a problem. I have never encountered it prior to living in Perth. Im sure it exists in the east coast (capital cities) but ive never come across it/users (probably to embarrassed to admit it). While here probably every month or 2 I get offered it and know few people that have used and multiple that have a close contact.

    But all in all great value on real estate at the moment - Just depends what your looking for in short/long term goals
     
  3. AndyPandy

    AndyPandy Well-Known Member

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  4. pilbrob

    pilbrob Well-Known Member

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    Hi Cliff.

    I'm a Melbourne boy who kind of got lost in WA almost 2 decades ago. But given my history, I understand your frame of reference.

    As a starting point, the most basic traditional advice is to buy in the "golden triangle", drawn with apices at Scarborough, Fremantle and the CBD. This is the Western Suburbs, which unlike Melb and Sydney are the good suburbs with the great schools and proximity to the beach.

    The western suburbs have some beautiful houses, but other than the beaches the area itself doesn't do a lot for me - this part of the city seems a bit souless. Well-off Perth people love them because that's where they grew up, and that's where they went to school. They've mostly seen great capital growth in the past 12 months, so if you bought there in 2020 you've done well!

    Dummies Guide: Perth's Inner North

    But coming from a Melbourne or Sydney perspective, I think it's well worth a look at the inner north. I first became interested in this area a couple of years back whilst reading an article in The Age whilst visiting my parents in Melbourne. They compared Mount Lawley to Hawthorn, and pointed out how ridiculously cheap it was in comparison.

    Focus suburb - Mount Lawley. We're talking here about a suburb that is not considered absolute top-rung by Perth people. Current median for a house is 1.15 million, up 15.4% in the past 12 months.

    Why do I rate this location? Well, it was one of the early land releases outside Perth, and was built from the start as a premium suburb, back in the early 1910s/1920s. Old sources from the 1930s describe it as "the Toorak of Perth". It's 3.5km from the CBD and because of its history it has some great character houses (many in the Federation style), some on blocks of 1000m2 plus.

    Despite these features, it hasn't been particularly fashionable in recent decades, with a 10-year growth rate of 2.4%. To my eyes, it's the most "Melbourne" of the Perth suburbs and does remind me of a cheap version of Hawthorn/Kew/Cantebury - historic houses on beautiful tree-lined streets. Beaufort Street runs through the center and is one of Perth's better restaurant and cafe strips. Beaufort Street has had a lot of negative press in the past few years, but in my opinion is staging a great comeback.

    See this article for an example of development on the strip: The Old Empire Building On Beaufort St Is Turning Into A Multi-Storey Hospitality Venue

    In terms of geography: If you start in Perth CBD and head north you have: CBD (lot of social problems atm, I would not buy there), Northbridge (Nightclub and restaurant hub, can get a bit feisty, I would not live there), Highgate (tiny suburb, has seen ridiculous capital growth of 45.3% this year, I would consider buying at the right price), Mount Lawley (my choice for inner north investing) and then Inglewood. The southern parts of Inglewood (on the avenues) are very similar to Mount Lawley, just with a slightly less desirable postcode.

    If you head west of Mount Lawley, you have North Perth. Definitely worth a look, but it doesn't have the consistent heritage look that Mount Lawley does.

    In Mount Lawley itself, a good place to start looking are the Avenues that run Southeast/Northwest across the suburb. Some say that "west of Beaufort" is best, but note that there has been debate about this on this forum and - spoilers! - I bought east of Beaufort last year.

    Here's an example, listed today, showing what 1.3 mil will buy you on the Avenues: https://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-wa-mount+lawley-138167586

    There are definitely nicer street just south of this - Almondbury Rd, Lawley Crescent, Queens Crescent and plenty more in that area. Perth College is one of Perth's premium private girls' schools and was built back in the 1910s (before the wider land releases). Any of the streets around here are premium, with beautiful houses on big blocks.

    Avoid the area east of Railway Parade, that's a different council and not "Mount Lawley proper".

    What to look for:
    - Stand-alone character house on a decent-sized block (400m2 plus, bigger is better but big blocks are now expensive so I think a house on a smaller "full sized" (non-subdivided) block is a decent buy).

    In summary, the investment case is:
    • Somewhat overlooked area that was originally built as a premium suburb and has houses, blocks and streetscapes that reflect this.
    • Excellent proximity to CBD.
    • Cafe/restaturant strip with plenty of character that is recovering after some hard times, with substantial development underway.
    • Infrastructure - good proximity to rail if east of Beaufort, and this line will run to Perth Airport starting next year.
    • Local high school is very good, ranked 20th in the state by ATAR scores. Perth college, a private girls' school, is currently ranked 9th (average ATAR 89.4%, compared to the top non-selective private school's result of 92.7%).
    With increased interest from Eastern States buyers, I would expect Mount Lawley to outperform over the next 10 years as it meets a lot of the expectations of this population group. I also think that the inner-city, cafe-culture lifestyle is more popular with young Perth people than it was with their parents.

    Negatives:
    - There has already been moderate price gains for well located, renovated properties. Dev blocks are now hard to come by.
    - Older Perth locals continue to prefer the Western Suburbs.
    - Not particularly close to the beach.
    - No premium private boys' school in the area (unlike the Western suburbs, where there is a wide choice).
    - Possible negative: Edith Cowan University is moving out of the suburb to relocate to the CBD. It is unclear if this is a positive or a negative. The local highschool will acquire some of ECU's facilities, which is a positive. Overall, I rate this development as "neutral".

    My personal view:
    - I think I have fallen in love with this suburb! I enjoy just walking around looking at the houses, or sitting in a Beaufort St cafe.
    - I purchased a 5-bedroom IP in Jan 2020 for 1.285mil, which is currently rented for $1050 per week. No problem finding tenants.
    - Suburbs I almost bought property in, but didn't: North Perth, Highgate. Both well worth a look for those interested in investing in the area.

    Conflicts of interest: nil. I'm not buying or selling anything right now. I just like the suburb. :)

    I'm holding 3 other IPs in Perth's northern beachside suburbs, and one in a regional mining town. I'll try and write something on these very different markets when I get a chance.

    MTR is the true Lawley expert, she may have some further opinions to share.

    Good luck all,

    R
     
    Last edited: 22nd Dec, 2021
  5. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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    I would get your Mt Lawley property valued if its nicely renovated 4 bedder today will sell for $1.7m-1.8m+. Dependent on condition, sqm home, land size and upgrades

    All blue chip has been hammered since downturn of 2007. Most of these suburbs including western suburbs will show minimal long term growth due to the downturn/flat market going for at least 12 years for blue chip.
    2013/14 sub $750k last boom cycle

    However, We started seeing a rising market I think around early 2020?? due to low supply, demand outstripping supply, houses not units

    But this is probably not a price point for investors planning to buy and hold. ?????

    Funny enough I am moving to Melb next year, renting my house.
    Your renting your home for $1050 pw? i have been quoted $1200 pw, throwing in gardener. Just saying, may want to check on this????

    Anyway, I think @seechange should review all Perth posts, lots of information here. So many suburbs are moving, too many to mention and its dependent on strategy. You can still buy properties and achieve 6/7% yields.

    I have posted on Rockingham thread and why I think this is a gem and undervalued. I have also posted links on what is happening and billion dollar projects in Kwinana etc

    Also look at areas between Perth and Freo, high demand
    North, undervalued coastal areas, where surrounding medians are higher

    Look at desirable school precincts in Perth metro
    For example…. Melville School Precinct one of the reasons Willagee going nuts
     
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  6. El Patron

    El Patron Well-Known Member

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    Perth Dummy Guide:
    #1 Yanchep
    #2 Anything by the beach
    #3 Everything else
    #4 Mandurah
     
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  7. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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    Adelaide Meth capital of the world:confused:


    i must get out more I dont see what you see in Perth;) Lived here all my life

    some of Melb inner city areas are pretty scary. My daughter lived in Richmond she had to deal with being harassed by druggies so she moved. Apparently its pretty bad also in part due to State housing mix in inner city??

    Like you said your perception is not necessarily a fact
     
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  8. JL1

    JL1 Well-Known Member

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    This is spot on.

    But one thing as a Syd/Melb buyer to be aware of with Perth is that from the age of 16, everyone has a car there. Not one per household, but at least one per person. Roads are also very clear by comparison, so living 20km from the city can still be a 20min drive. Accordingly, proximity to public transport bears virtually no premium. There is a far, far greater value placed on space than there is in Syd/Melb, where proximity to CBD/transport rules over sqm. Also note the CBD is far less exciting - beaches are equally important to many.

    This is why you see things like this asking the same money. IMO if this were the east, the Mt Lawley one would have a good 20% premium for its heritage value and central location.

    What i'm saying here is that people always say "the opportunities in Perth are the inner 10km". Personally, i dont believe this is true. The culture there is wildly different to the east. They dont have as much youth migration, and also a far less city-centric workforce. combined with the reasons above, there will for some time yet be a far greater value placed on space and family amenities (within driving, not walking distance)
     
  9. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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    55 Fifth Ave Mt Lawley
    Seems too cheap??? In this market, it should be sold NOW at this price

    Being sold by owner, not agent, beware of underquoting, then ramping price up
    It also does no show house plans red flag for me, I think needs an extension. ???At this price its practically land value

    As far as inner city versus beach lifestyle. I agree we have a different mentality here to east, beach suburbs very sort after but its changing rapidly inner city is very desirable.

    dont under estimate inner city suburbs ie Subi, West Leederville, Leederville, Mt Lawley. There is definately a cafe set in Perth who love this lifestyle, we nay not have a 6 M population but we love our cafes, restaurants and going for breakfasts

    I have lived in Perth long enough to know that when the market is booming these areas are sort after and millennials love this lifestyle. Why we are seeing everything flying out the door today. Its a lifestyle choice.

    There are aspirational beach side suburbs ie Hillary, Sorrento, North Beach, Marmion but we are not talking Craigie, Heathridge.

    I think Craigie, Heathridge excellent value compared to surrounding areas
     
  10. See Change

    See Change Well-Known Member

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    Two options , either nicer property up to 700 , or a couple of cheaper ones or one a step up from cheap and some money to .... Ehhhh!!! shares ...

    Main aim is more to get a guide to perth , rather than , Where's the best place to buy in perth for 550 ....

    Cliff
     
  11. Rex

    Rex Well-Known Member

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    Here's a bit of a rough framework.
    1. Draw a triangle encompassing the City of Rockingham, City of Wanneroo and Perth Airport and make everything within that envelope your first pass area
    2. Rule out areas with greenfield development/subdivisions
    4. Use Google street view on several streets to confirm that the suburb is not a $h!thole - e.g. if you see long grass on front lawns, bogan cars parked in front yards, etc then don't bother.
    5. Consider houses (not units) that you'd be prepared to live in in and obviously avoid things like power lines, main roads, opposite schools/shops, etc
    6. If you're looking at areas further than ~30km from the CBD, then focus your search on locations that are really close (walking distance) to the beach

    EDIT: Obviously don't buy too close to the actual airport either for obvious reasons.
     
  12. spoon

    spoon Well-Known Member

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    @See Change Hi, if you need a biblical verse on Perth property investment, this is what I would say:

    Buy as west as possible, as close to the widest part of the river as possible, or closest to the nicest city-bound beaches as possible. Houses with good land component. Full stop.
     
  13. See Change

    See Change Well-Known Member

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    Hi Pilbrob

    Great Info , Thanks Heaps . I went through High school in Melbourne . Used to sail on Albert Park lake maaaany years ago

    You mentioned you owned some Northern Beaches IP's . I notice that once you get up to 6030 the average prices drop down into the 400's . Is distance from Perth the main reason for the price change , is there better infrastructure or is it just there nice houses , or bits of all. DO any of those Northern beaches suburbs have al lot of 50's / 60's houses with nice bones but in need of an update

    Outside the North vs South preferance , is there any difference of what the beaches look like / functionality of the beaches North Vs South .

    Cheers

    Cliff
     
  14. See Change

    See Change Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the info MTR

    Yep , I'm already going through the Perth / Rockingham posts . Lots of good info / Lots of stuff to go through . Was just wanting more of an overview of different areas .

    We're considering two options , one would be around 650-700 , other would be up to around 450 . Seems to be a few different options in those price ranges .

    Reasons for going for Perth at the moment is my starting point is usually which has been the worst performing capital CIty in the last ten years , and given we're not interested in Darwin , Perth is it . While it's obviously moving now , I think the Eastern states have been turbo charged by extra cash because people havn't been spending due to COVID so they're upgrading houses , buying houses or holiday houses so Perth is on a more normal trajectory .

    Cheers
     
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  15. See Change

    See Change Well-Known Member

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    That's keeping it simple :cool: .

    My memory of Yanchep was c/o Alan Bond who's challenge for the america's cup was based out of there . I stayed up all night watching them win in the US , fell asleep in my chair to woke up with the frantic commentory as they rounded the last mark ahead ...

    What's Yanchep like now ? Is it a self contained hub ? Do people commute to Perth from the City ? Is there a Statue of Alan Bond or John Bertrand in the main street ??

    What makes you rate it number one ? Is it Price point on a nice beach ? Looks as though there are options under 700 and cheaper a bit back from the beach .

    Cheers

    Cliff
     
  16. See Change

    See Change Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for heads up re airport . I'd noticed some cheaper places around there but hadn't twigged to where the airport in . Which are the main suburbs affected by the airport noise . Interestingly in Sydney , Marrickville , which is right under the flightway is quite trendy. 30 years ago I used to go to indoor paintball there and when the planes flew over , conversations stopped ... was a Sh..t hole back then , but close to the city .

    Cheers

    Cliff
     
  17. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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    Lets not get confused Yanchep wont hold a candle to Rockingham…. Kwinana Industrial hub will impact positively on Rockingham… its a buy for me….. jobs, rents are soaring 6/7% yields. Demand outstripped supply.

    Rockingham has gone up $100k in last 18 months Cooloongup.

    $1b hydrogen plant planned
     
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  18. See Change

    See Change Well-Known Member

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    Gradually getting a better idea of where we'll look . For our budget , those areas " perfect areas " are out , so it's more a matter of which areas on the coast ( moving away from the river ) or on the river , moving away from the coast offer the best ops of changing character in the short and long term .

    We've always been buying for the coming short term growth and that's worked well for us , but this may be a long term hold so that longer term gentrification is something we're thinking about with this buy . So maybe the suburb which isn't as well considered as it's more upmarket neighbour , but that difference is more driven by historical development patterns rather than any specific geographical feature .

    Cheers

    Cliff
     
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  19. Westminster

    Westminster Tigress at Tiger Developments Business Member

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    Our airport doesn't have a curfew so flight noise can be an issue. ANEF noise contours are here What does the current ANEF look like? – Perth Airport Community Portal
     
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  20. Propin

    Propin Well-Known Member

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