OSR and copies of trusts

Can anyone please tell me if the NSW OSR hold copies of trusts, I can not remember whether a copy of mine was taken when I had it stamped, just least the stamped page potentially.

Thanks

 

No they dont

 

Thanks Terry

I find that strange, the OSR have no idea at all of the content of ones trust. This would allow for modifications of the trust without the OSR knowledge.

Surely they at least copy the stamped front page showing beneficiaries etc or somehow track the type of trust to the stamp on the trust.

Surely the stamp used is unique for each trust.

 

Same stamp but I think there is a number on it which would be unique.

A trust is a deed and deeds are not registered

 

Can someone clarify how modifications of trusts are tracked if no one keeps a copy?

 

They are not tracked.

 

This seems ridiculous

 

Why.?

Trusts are private arrangements between people. There is no registration involved and the osr only gets involved because duty is payable on formation and possibly the change of trustees.

Where there is a potential resettlement they may not know this has occured and may miss out of duty but this could be detected in an audit.

 

They also get involved when Land tax is payable which opens up issues with people changing trusts to suit their needs

 

the trustee of the trust would have a responsibility for ensuring the deed and any updated versions of the deed were stored in a safe location.

 

I agree but my point isn't really about losing a trust deed, it's about the fact trustees can change the trust to suit their needs and even in an audit would not be picked up on it

 

a trust is amended by deed so it would be pciked up on audit unless you are thinking of fraudulently changing the original deed - this could be picked up too due to different fonts, paper etc

It is the same as wills. there is no central register for wills and sometimes beneficiaries try to change wills of the deceased to benefit themselves. People get charged with criminal offences over this and go to prison as it is fraud.

 

Who is trying to change a deed Terry?

Regardless if someone wanted to it would be easy using adobe acrobat.

The system is flawed.

 

I thought that you were talking about people changing deeds and avoiding stamp duty and land tax?

 

Yes, I was confused by your answer, that's my problem with the system.

Someone could rewrite a deed from scratch and no one would know any different as there is no baseline for comparison.

 

The OSR place a stamp on one page of the deed so this gives some evidence of the terms of the deed (in part). they usually stamp the page which has the beneficiaries listed.

But it is certainly possible to change a deed and not have the OSR know about it.

The only alternative is for the govt to maintain a massive register of trust dee

 

Yes I guess that would be the only option Terry, your point is some security I guess but I believe they should keep a record of some sort.

 

Amending a trust can trigger CGT and duty and income tax. I have seen people amend trusts to avoid tax and trigger tax.

 

You assume the amendment saves tax.

 

I have seen (too late) clients attempt to recreate documents to save tax.

Without fail, when it becomes ugly, they have eventually told the truth.

The tracking of work done electronically these days is phenomenal: especially given the use of email. A search of your email server will create a lot of evidence.

And no trusted advisor will lie for you. If they say they will they are lying. No advisor will sacrifice the ability to go home at night to save a client.

Do not even think about trying to recreate a deed. Sounds good but it is bad.