NSW Orange Sat 14th

Hi All,

Will be up in Orange on Saturday it seems, anyone want to meet at one of the Cafe's ?

Say morning some time or after 2pm in the afternoon Sat 14th, post here or PM if interested.

 

Hey Dabbler,
I wont be in the area this weekend sorry man but i didnt know you had done deals there too ?!!

 

I know Orange reasonably well.

I do not think many would be free at short notice, but thought I would put it here as you never know.

 

Very busy atm dab. Enjoy your weekend in the country.

 

@dabbler are you renovating or hunting for deals?

 

Hi Larry&Larry

I am *always* looking for deals, the problem is how to get enough deposits & I hate having to choose, Australia is a big place I tell my boss & is full of houses.

I go a lot also to Orange and some other areas just so I know the market and areas well, that way I can filter what is worth having a look see at.

There is quite a few members on old site & I think this one that know or follow Orange.

Why do you ask ? Do you need a BA ???

 

I always keep an open mind.

 

Ha I grew up in Orange... can't say I miss it

 

Maybe it's time to visit!

 

Swing by Icely Road, Grace Rise, Snowy Way and Hill Street... see some of the great NRAS deals we have done in Orange

 

I Know all these places, was thinking of buying something on Icely, wont go near the 2 new estates as blocks bit small & not really looking for new, will be in Warrendine looking at something.

I tend to think of anything under 700sq in country as too small, if I was going to go for one that was smaller it would have to be very close to the main drag.

What are the addresses of the ones your doing ? Have they all sold ? If your up there, drop me a line. I think we could have a good discussion on the type of tenants if it is at a discounted rate, may inherit some ex housing ?

I will be up multiple times over next month or two on weekends and weekdays depending on what other work I have, so people can PM if they want to meet up on some other days.

 

I dont care who my tenant is as long as they pay the rent and leave the place undamaged... I have North shore properties and regional properties, and an idiot tenant is an idiot tenant no matter what they do for work or earn as income...

I wont be in orange... Icely, Snowy, Grace are all finished , tenanted, doing nicely...

There's also Nile Street ...

 

Yeah, leaving the place undamaged is what I am talking about.

Come up some time, or come to Sydney meet up and I am all ears for anyone to counter the things I do not like about this....

1 relying on the govt at any level
2 any tenant who can't pay market rate which is already depressed
3 not being able to use your own selected managing agent

Orange is one of the few places I have seen places smashed to bits, nice newer places too, and housing has been selling off stock and dispersing it's clients throughout Orange.

 

All I can tell you is that I own a dozen NRAS and have sold over 350... and so far I haven't had any clients notify me of any unusual or abnormal damage caused by tenants ....

RE relying on Govt at any level. Where do we draw the line? Most families receive some form of Govt assistance either directly or indirectly , whether it be FTB A or B. Most property investors either have received or still do receive neg gearing benefits from pre tax losses or depreciation. Or CGT concessions.... What about those Australians who receive discounted prescription medication using a pharmaceuticals benefits card? Or those of us here who have loans or other financial products from Australian banking institutions that had the AOFM as a cornerstone investor in their RMBS during the GFC, or who used the Govts AAA rating to secure lower funding costs in the years after the GFC, or who used Govt deposit guarantees to underwrite their retail deposit products ?

All of those are examples of Govt assistance that you and I and others are likely to have relied upon at different times, or perhaps continue to rely upon ....sometimes perhaps without even knowing it. If we are honest about it, we all enjoy all kinds of Govt assistance one way or another...

So to that end, I don't really see how an NRAS tax credit - which is simply a tax incentive offered to investors who choose to purchase eligible new dwellings, and who then choose to participate that eligible new dwelling in the NRAS and agree to meet certain criteria ie renting at a 20% discount and to income eligible tenants; is any different to any other number of tax incentives available to individuals and companies at any given time, including those which you, I , others... may avail ourselves of daily....

I also wouldn't agree that NRAS tenants cant afford to pay market rent. The Govt recognised that key and essential workers who were starting to face escalating rents, needed some assistance in finding suitable, quality accommodation - so they copied a Reagan era scheme by and large and introduced NRAS - It's actually ironic that people find it economically expensive or ideologically challenging . Reagan was the very definition of a pure right wing ideologue who was the father of trickle down economics and even he realised this was a far cheaper way to encourage extra construction and create massive flow on effects while also delivering a strong social outcome, all at very little cost to Government , because it's essentially outsourced to private investors to do all the heavy lifting. Think about what the state pays out over 25 years. The stamp duty alone gets them most their money back on day 1. And the feds collect GST that pays for the majority of their outlay in most cases, on day 1.

RE not being able to use your own manager - this is a first world problem, really. It's a very minor issue when someone is handing you 11K tax free... thats just how it is. You cant have everything. But I can also tell you that on the deals I put together, 99% of the time I determine the tenancy manager , not the NRAS provider. In Orange for example, we use a local private sector tenancy manager... and that's the case on most the deals I put together. No one gets placed as a tenant without full background checks and rental history checks...

You should ask around on the forum... plenty of very happy investors on here who have had very positive experiences with NRAS - several of whom own properties in Orange actually - and who I'm sure would reinforce everything I have noted above It really can be done right... and it really can be a very good experience if you work with people who do it right.

 

I would only worry in Orange or similar country cities.

Can you PM me the manager ?

I think seeing the few people who have problems and those that have not got the payments reliably are what turn me off, along with not being able to hand pick the place and return.

Not saying it can't work or not good at all.

Orange has a very clear preference on house and land of decent size and beds, and while that is the clear market demand, that is what I would go for there, in Sydney, or a capital, different kettle of fish.

Would like to sit down with you some time though, if your up in Orange anytime, send me a PM.

Or if you go to one of the meet ups (not this Wed though) would be great to speak with you.

 

I'm happy with my NRAS including the 2 in Orange. I can live with the NRAS payments being a bit late, my buffers are quite good.

One problem I do have with NRAS is that if the property is vacant you don't get the incentive for that period. Unfortunately 1 of my props in Orange took 6 weeks to get a tenant. $1200 tax free lost. Ouch.

Would I buy more if I could? Absolutely, undoubtedly. @euro73 has been fantastic in helping us with loans and properties.

 

If the 1200 is made up easily later in the year then it is nothing in the scheme of things.

 

Over the 10 years, I'm looking at 80k surplus cash, 50k CG assuming a modest 2% growth, and assuming I diligently reinvest the cash into offsets, I'll save lots of interest.

So in the big scheme of things not huge.

 

How was orange? Bought anything @dabbler

 

It was fantastic weather ! Glorious day.

Saw something of interest, ironically missed out on an acreage north west of Orange by a matter of hours, it was a steal, it was gone, someone close who could act fast....